Banshee Q & A

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999
From: Rebecca 'Robbi' Adams - massageworks@therapist.net
To: Steve Bonham
Subject: Re: Banshee

No, I did not find a jib sail. I did not know that you could put a jib sail on this boat. I have heard from CA that it is a very fast boat with the sail that is provided for it. I am sailing with my six year old I do not think it needs to be any faster. I am getting a very clear picture that I would be overturned very often if I had a jib to bother with. Anyway, I have never heard of any jib for this one. No one in CA has mentioned that. A gentleman answered my e-mail from Sacramento about the sails and the deal was his two oldest sails for $100.00. He had a new one made. You can get a new one made for $325.00-$525.00.

Sherron at Hart Sails made them for him. She owns the rights to the racing sails. You can not race in a one class race with just any sail, you must use her sails or the one that came with the boat. He said that he races this boat quite a bit. He did not have anything for me as far a pictures for rigging, so I have been lost about that until now, so THANK YOU! I really appreciate that!

Have you ever taken your boat to Clarks hill reservoir near Augusta? That is where I learned how to sail my father's Coronado 15 when I was a little girl. I brought it down here to FL when I left home and sailed every day until my father felt the need to sell it. It has been ten years since I have been in a sailboat. I will get to put it together today because the sails should be here! I cut and sanded my centerboard yesterday. I just have to finish it with marine polyurethane and we are off! By the way I have the official one class racing rule book for the Banshee do you have that? I would be glad to send that to you. I do not have a flier for the boat though. Does it have more information about the boat that is not in your pictures? I would love to know how your center board fits in the trunk? I have to get cracking on that center board if I want it to be dry and waterproof by the time I need to get it in the water!

I'm not sure that you CAN put a jib on the Banshee. It just seemed to be rigged for it with the side cleats and deck-nose fixture. I'd like to get some experience in using more than one sail. I hope in the new couple of years to move to a "upper twenty-something/lower thirty something" older Catalina (or similar). I want to try some overnite sailing off the coast. The Banshee is a joy to sail! In a 10 mile and hour breeze it flies. Beware! My son (now 15) was scared to death at age 6 when I first started taking him out... He was terrified of heeling until I spent a couple of hours practicing intentional capsizes with him in a moderate wind close to shore. He learned to right the boat by himself (all 60 pounds of him!). After that he was okay. FYI, here is the process for righting the boat:

I've been to Clarks-Hill a few times. I usually go sailing off Pickney Island (just this western side of Hilton Head, S.C.). --Sailing with the dolphins! It is a real kick.

The Banshee flier is an 11 x 17 one sheet with pictures and line drawings (same side and top shots I used). Photo shows a child "surfing" on the foredeck and another shows the same child righting the boat after a capsize (probably seconds after the first photo!). There is nothing of substance in the flier-- that's why I had put the rigging material together. I had to figure it our myself with some suggestions from my father-in-law who used to race in the J-24 class in San Diego. Tell me more about your daggerboard. What did you make it with? Mine is pretty sad looking. It's the original cedar(?) but has several missing chunks and even more plastic-like filled areas where there USED to be missing chunks! I'm thinking of building a new one too. You said: >I would love to know how your center board fits in the trunk? Do you mean in the daggerboard well or the trunk of your car!? During transport I bungee mine into the boat. It is rather large for a car trunk... If you mean in the daggerboard well-- Fit it in however you'd like. In the front, centered, or toward the back; straight down/angle back-- It all depends on the load in your boat and the sailing conditions. I usually have mine positioned in the front of the well pointing straight down. I bungee it in pretty snuggly- or it tends to pop up when the wind dies. I'm in the process now of replacing my rotten transom. Banshees are notorious for this BTW. Keep them OUT of the weather. Mine had been stored outside on the trailer tipped so that it would drain-- but water got under the fiberglass in between the plywood layers and it has rotted significantly. I could pinch the transom walls and there was a LOT of flexibility in several areas --that was a major concern. I tried some of the "solutions" offered via the Banshee list ("GitRot") to no avail. So this weekend I'm doing major surgery. My boat has been out of action since last summer. I'm looking forward to getting it back into service. I'd love to have the "racing rules book" you mentioned. Is it faxable? If so I'm at 912.681.0099. If not, my snail mail is in my sig. I do not anticipate doing any racing-- but who knows... Well- better get back to work. I hope you and your son have a greatly successful first sail!

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999
From: Rebecca 'Robbi' Adams
To: Steve Bonham
Subject: Re: Banshee

I will send the rule book today via snail mail. It is very simple. I have some questions for you. Do you not use the side cleats at all? What is the transom and the thwart? Do you have a cleat on the deck by the mast? I am having a hard time finding a basic sailing book to read. Everything here is very advanced. Just a beginning book would be nice. If you know of one send the ISBN # and I will order it. I got my sails today and I have checked them out. They are both fitted with a sock on the end so it does not need a halyard. The cunngingham just pulls it down. Evidently the racers in CA all do it this way. I hear that they haven't seen a halyard for this boat in a long time. I guess that is one less thing they have to worry about while sailing. I guess that will do it for now.

I suppose that is the side cleats are not used for a jib then they must be for tying up to the dock...? Yeah. It's not really a standard "cleat." I have two "friction" cleats on the deck by the mast well. They are V shaped. There is a hole nearest the tip of the V. Feed the line thru the hole and up thru the V. Pressure from the line "pinches" the line between the sides of the V.

The book I love is entitled "Sailing for Dummies" ISBN is 0-7645-5039-X Couldn't be simpler.

A sock-- huh? That would worry me. I've been caught out in a thunderstorm a couple of times in my Banshee and I was blown all over EVEN WITH THE SAIL DOWN! The only defense would be an intentional capsize with a sock in place... ??? You might want to think about that issue carefully.

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999
From: Rebecca 'Robbi' Adams
To: Steve Bonham
Subject: Re: Banshee

I have gotten my sails today and the guy who sold them to me races this boat all of the time. I will send a copy of his diagrams to you. You will then see what the cleats on the side are for. The light bulb went on when I saw his diagram. I will have to find out about the windy sailing and he said that if I wanted to I could take the top of the sock off to have a halyard if I wanted to but not very many of the racers do that out there. Even the sail he just had made he had the top of the sleeve put on. I don't know I am just glad to have a sail for this boat. New ones are terribly expensive. Well you should get some things in the mail from me soon. Let me know if you've gotten them. I am ordering that book tonight.

Finally! I've loacted the Banshee Flier. I had lost in in one of the many piles in my office [we've been changing offices]. Could you send your fax number again? I'll get it out today. How's the sailing going? I've cut my old rotten transom off-- and been glassing, sanding, glassing, sanding, etc. for a solid week now.... No, not the transom. Everything else! :-( Found hairline cracks on the hull, on the edges of the daggerboard well, in the mast well, one major crack on the deck, etc. A major overhaul. But it's long overdue. Can't wait to get it in the water. Did you see John P's latest post (You were mentioned there)? The story on the U-31 was a hoot.

I've have a number of requests for a copy of my rare Banshee "Operators Manual" (dare I call it that?) since I mentioned it a few years ago. Since the last request I decided it might be a good resource to "webize"-- So, I've done so. It's at brochure.html. Remember it's 1970's(?) vintage. Some of the info (regarding the Banshee association) probably is not current.

From: "Chris Freeman" - c-n-free@worldnet.att.net
To: Steve Bonham
Subject: Banshee info
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999

Thanks for sharing the info & the link. I am continually amazed at the enthusiasm of this fleet.

Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999
From: Chris Freeman
To: Steve Bonham
Subject: Re: Banshee info

Lake Murray, SC. I primarily crew on a J/24 (foredeck) We do a lot of racing here on our lake & go to regattas in Charleston, Wrightsville Beach NC, Lake Lanier GA, & Augusta GA. The Banshee, I horse traded for with a canoe & a little cash. It has been a fun little boat, but having the only one on the lake it's not easily raced. We also have a Catalina 22, though I still would rather race on a J.

1) What is the line that is attached to the head of the sail for?
[Halyard- for raising sail if you do not have a "sock" style sleeve.]
2) Is wrapping the sail around the mast the best way to reef? [not advised-- if blowing that hard go in]
3) Is a halyard a good idea and if so , what is the best way to rig it?
4) My hull says BSD06504M79K. Does that mean I have boat number 6504, which was built in 1979?
[For the answer the the last question see: HIN (Hull Identification Humbers) Info here]

You are welcome to link to or clone the pages. However, I'm webmaster here at our Center and don't see any problem with keeping them here for a long time. Steve

>Thats great! I'll stick in a pointer from the Banshee page I've got. If you ever have any difficulty hosting what you have, I'd be proud to maintain copies at the (zero cost) MIT site.

Sure do enjoy your fleet reports! The last one re the C-31 was a HOOT! :-) Ever thought about archiving them? If you have photos to add they could be a neat web resource. I look forward to seeing your flier. If you need assistance with layout it out let me know.

To: Brian F Larson - bflarson@cnde.iastate.edu
From: Steve Bonham
Subject: Re: Old Banshee Flier Online

It was a "labor of love" and a trip down memory lane-- and it will reduce time spent locating and faxing the stuff in the future. Many folks sailing Banshees in Iowa? Steve

>I found the information interesting and I appreciate your effort to get the material on the Internet.

From: DIALSF@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999
Subject: Re: Old Banshee Flier Online
To: sbonham

Iam not an official member of the fleet but love sailing my Banshee up at Scotts Flat Lake in the Sierra's every Summer! I was, years ago in the 60s, General Mgr. of Marine Plastics Inc., the original Mfg. of the Banshee, and my (former) brother in Law Dick Reid, designed the Banshee and we built the first generation up to the time that Dick sold his interest to Barry Brook and production resumed in Santa Cruz, Calif. some years later. We also built the Flying Dutchman, 21 ft. Olympic Class and the trainer for that class, the Flying Dutchman Jr. 16 ft. Sloop. Thank you again for the flier, it was very nastalgic indeed ! Have a wonderful Fourth of July and stay in touch when you have time.

Gee, you're a good guy to have in the neighborhood! I'm currently replacing my Banshee transom. Could I ask for some advice? I've cut the old rotten thing off and I'm in the process of patching some small hairline cracks in the hull. Soon I plan to add as many swimming pool noodles as I can wedge into the flotation cells. Last time I had her out she took on a LOT of water... Then I'll put a new transom back on. Here's my plan -- please review & let me know if I'm on the right track... I'm no boatwright-- but do enjoy learning new things. Thanks in advance.

From: "Blosen, Bill" - bill.blosen@compaq.com
Subject: RE: Banshee hull numbers
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999

After hearing questions about the Banshee hull numbers I thought I would pass this along: check out this website it will answer ALL your questions:http://boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.html On the other questions: 1 ) I am not sure. Adjustable attachment to top of mast, instead of a shackle? 2) I think so. 3) I would only have a halyard if I anticipated having to lower the sail while on the water. On the beach, just carefully roll the boat on to its side, walk to the end of the mast in order to detach and lower the sail. 4) PS: banshee hull numbers and sail numbers do not match. I assume it was easier that way at the factory. Regards, Bill Blosen Compaq Computers

I was wondering when these boat where sold if they had a users manual with them would like to know. And if so if they are still available somewhere. thanks Gary

From: "Rilla McColl" - rmccoll@mediaone.net
Subject: Banshee
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999

We have a 1978 Banshee whose papers claim it is 14 feet, but the web site I got the e-mail address off thinks Banshees are 13. In any case, the thing that holds the mast into the bottom of the boat is broken. (Perhaps it's called a step - perhaps not. Sorry to be so non-nautical.) We would dearly love to fix it and would appreciate any ideas on how to go about it.

[e-mail address comment deleted] I also have a new sail from Sherron Hart which looks & works pretty nice. Now I have to find a race to test it out.

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999
From: John Maguire
To: Banshee
Subject: Banshee web site and email letter

Hi. My information is below. I ran into Charlie Hess yesterday at Huntington Lake, California. I've owned a banshee since 1984 and recently got another used one because it was in better shape (didn't leak!) both banshees are 25-30 years old. I want to know the web address for the web page, and also be on any Banshee email list.

For Sale 14 foot Banshee Sailboat, Gold with white interior Fully rigged Rainbow Sail Trailer All in great shape Registrations up to date $600.00

I have a banshee, built for coastguard training program, for sale. I am located in Ukiah, CA (about 110mi North of S.F.) w/trailer. $500.00.

I have purchaced a used Banshee and need rigging instructions, if any one can help.

This seems to be a classic problem with Banshees. I'm in the final stages of completing a transom replacement on my 1976 vintage Banshee. I tried some cheap fixes that worked for a while... First, put some layers of new glass across the top of the transom and reinforced the hull/transom junctures. This just delayed the major repair job-- Not a good fix.

How bad is the rotting? When I bought my Banshee (used in 1990) it had deliminated on the outer edges of the transom. I suspected some rot but it didn't appear to be serious until a couple of years ago. If the damage is minimal and localized you can try "Git-Rot" an expensive (4 oz. bottle is about $30) penetrating resin that will harden the rotten areas (Really HARD - rock hard!). Just drill holes (many small holes are better than fewer larger holes) into the damaged areas. Let it drain. Amazing how much water the transom plywood will hold! My boat was still dripping after a week.... My guess was that it was holding about 5-10 ounces. When your boat has not dripped for a week or so "inject" the Git-Rot. Let it cure (I waited 2 weeks) and fill and relaminate the work areas. Git-rot got me thru 2 summers- but the other untreated areas continued to breakdown. Last time I was out sailing I noticed that the interior transom wall (where the rudder linkage hardware is visible) was "spongy" -- I could pinch it with my fingers and compress it 1/8 of an inch. I decided to overhaul the whole thing.

I cut off the old transom with a circular saw.
[I don't suggest doing this! It was a lot more work than I thought. Do this instead --->GREAT TRANSOM REPAIR ADVICE!!! ]
It was pretty badly rotted-- and flakey except where I treated it with Git-Rot (I had only used one small bottle). If I used three I might have avoided this. :-( Using the old transom as a template (minus 1/4 inch along the bottom edge-- you'll make it up with laminate) I cut a new one from 3/4 inch pressure-treated plywood. I laminated the transom to the extreme... Fiberglas Mat, more mat, cloth, mat, cloth, cloth (Yes, the transom is heavy now). Drilled temporary holes into the transom so I could winch it into place against the hull/aircells for bonding and laminating. I'm putting the final layers of laminate on now. She's almost as good as new. The transom replacment has been interesting but NOT fun. My new nickname at home is "sticky" and I've spent a small fortune on resin, acetone, and fiberglass material at the local Lowes. My advice -- Sand off the entire aft wall of your transom-- thru the gelcoat and glass until you get down to the plywood. Let it dry out. Inject the git-rot GENEROUSLY. Let it cure. Rebuild and shape the original transom wall with bondo or another good shapable filler. Reglass generously. Get Git-Rot... and plenty of it.

>The rubber strip on top of my transom was loose and water has gotten into the wood which has started to delaminate and rot. Any ideas on how to repair this?

From: Djinoregon - Djinoregon@aol.com
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: Maintainence Help for my Banshee
To: sbonham

Thanks for the great ideas on fixing my transom. I was hoping for a quick fix so I could get in some more sailing this year but after reading your message I think I"d rather make this my winter project and do it right. This boat has been with my family for 20 years and holds some sentimental value. DJ

From: Mountnr
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999
Subject: Traveler and mainsheet system
To: banshee

Would like to know what brand and model traveler people are using for their Banshee. Also, what type of mainsheet block and cleat? I am using the stock set-up but want to switch, Thanks alot, Bill Potts

From: "Lane, Brian L MVR" - brian.l.lane@usace.army.mil
To: "'banshee"
Subject: new banshee owner
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999

I have just bought a used banshee and would like and info on the proper maintenance and setup.

Thank You
Brian L. Lane
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers,
Rock Island District Engineering Division

Hi: I bought my Banshee back in the early 1970's when my wife made me sell my big Islander cruiser. I loved it then, although I am getting a little long in the tooth for the acrobatics it requires. About 10 years ago My son hit a rock, flipped and lost the upper lower mast and rudder. We didn't know where to go for replacement parts so we had to get a (shudder) Laser sail, mast and tiller assembly. So now we have a "Blazer". We really cant tell any difference in sailing characteristics and the boat has still the much superior cockpit layout to the Laser. Anyway, in case we lose anything else on the boat, can you tell us were we can get Banshee replacement parts?

There is a Banshee for sale in my area and I'm thinking of purchasing it, but there is no sail with the boat. I was wondering if you could give me any info as where to buy one. I would appreciate any information that you could e-mail me.
Cecil Davis

Last I heard, Kim Desenburg, North Coast Yachts, Oakland, CA had parts and tooling for the Banshee. In case you do'nt find a factory board, dimensions per the 6/1/79 rules book are: span below keelson 32 1/2" chord at keelson 11 1/2" chord at max. span 8 1/2" maximum thickness 1" Shape and dimensions above bottom of hull are unrestricted. The section, while unspecified, approximates an NACA 0006 airfoil. My experience is that shape and finish of board and rudder are critical if you expect the boat to point and perform well.

I got a banshee at a yard sale the other day. The hull seems to be in OK shape. The standing rigging is all there and the sail is probably useable, at least for a while. But most of the running rigging is gone or in really bad shape. Has anyone got some drawings or pictures that show detail as to where lines should be run and blocks should be installed? The last time I sailed a banshee was at least ten years ago and I just don't remember any more. Maybe there are some banshees in the SF bay area I could visit and see how they are rigged.

From: tom-miller
To: Steve Bonham
Subject: Re: My new banshee
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999

I looked at the brochure. The drawing that showed the basic rigging is helpful. Thanks.

>Hi Tom,
>I have a handout I made for a sailing class years back. Give me a fax number and I'll send it on.
>Also check out: > Banshee Home

Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000
From: Steve C - schai@rust.net
To: "banshee"
Subject: Wanted: used Banshee Sail

I'm looking to buy a used Banshee Sail. There is no racing around here, so maybe one of you racers has an older one in decent conditon. My sail got pilfered so I now have none. I still have to redo the rotted transom and the ice melt before I can go sailing again. Thanks for any leads.

From: "Donald Dahl" - donwecarerose@mindspring.com
To:
Subject: Banshee?
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000

Your web site is a great find!!!! As my wife and I have Recently accuired a 1977 Banshee that seems to be in very good shape but neither of us have a clue on how to rig it nor do either of us have any sailing experiance hopfuly we will be able to hook-up with some of the Banshee owners here in the Sacramento aera as we see there are quite a few. Please add as to your list, we live in Sacramento.

Banshee Racers, Folsom Lake Yacht Club has passed out the Race Committee assignments for the year and the open centerboard fleet has been given the second race day of each series. Since when I look around the only non-keelboat racers I see are Banshees, we're it. If you are interested in doing race committee for a race day, please give me a call 916-985-4236, or send me an e-mail. No experience is required since we train. Guests, kids, nice dogs etc. are welcome if arranged in advance. It is a great way for new racers or the uninitiated to see what it is like. (Plus the Banshee committees are always a fun time!!!). Thanks to our own Craig Lee for doing committee last weekend - he did a great job in spite of the less than stellar wind conditions! Banshee Committees needed for.... · Frostbite #2, Saturday January 22, 2000 (roughly 9 AM - 3 PM, Folsom Lake Marina ) - Dean and Daria will be there - others are welcome.· · Spring #2, Saturday March 25, 2000 (roughly 9 AM -3 PM) - Race chairman and crew needed.· · Summer #2 (Date not yet set) - Race chairman and crew needed.· · Fall #2 (Date not yet set) - Race chairman and crew needed.·

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000
From: Ken Perine
To: banshee
Subject: My new Banshee Project

I just purchased a Banshee Sailboat the needs some transom work because part of the core has become de-laminated. I was wondering if anyone else had this experience and what they did to fully repair the boat. I also am in need of the proper way to rig the boat for class racing. Are travelers allowed? Are there sail type restrictions? I also am not sure if the centerboard I received with it is the stock type. I need to know the dimensions of the centerboard, including minimum weight. I hope to have this boat fully operational by April and so would appreciate any speedy responses I can get. (Late responses ok to)

From: DIALSF
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000
Subject: Check out Banshee Page - [GREAT TRANSOM REPAIR ADVICE!!!]
To: kenperin
CC: banshee

Ken, Go to this web site for rudder plans, sail plans, daggerboard plans and Official Banshee Class Rules.

As far as the rudder, I would suggest taking a router and carefully routing out the wood laminated to transom until you have a nice clean, flat area that consists of the Plastic laminate of hull, devoid of any material. Be careful not to go thru the Transom Laminate with the router or whatever you decide to use to remove rotting wood!

Cut a new piece of marine grade plywood at least half inch thick, and use the router, or by hand if no router, round the edge of the plywood on the bottom & side that goes against the transom so that it fits the radius of the hull/transom juncture. It should fit nice and snug between gunwhale tanks and transom, but not too tight. Rough up plywood with 30 grit sandpaper on side that laminates to transom and wipe transom and Plywood clean with acetone. Rough up half inch area on side of tanks (only where new transom plywood will come in contact with them) so glass and plywood will bond to tank sides as well as transom itself. (DONT GET MESSY WITH THE RESIN......HUGE MISTAKE)

Mask tanks and just ahead of where plywood will end up on hull floor, so you dont get resin runoff that will leach from transom ply when Ply is clamped to transom during lamination to hull. Use ounce and a half fiberglass mat with resin, not "catalyzed" to hot, and place ply against transom area. Take C-Clamps and place wood 2x4s or similar to use as clamp blocks to spread the pressure of the clamps evenly as possible against ply and suck it in as evenly as possible against hull/transom. you might want to clean any residual resin off boat or elsewhere before it sets up. After glass has cured for a day or so, put one more layer of ounce and a half mat on interior side of transom, let cure, sand and finish with coating of choice. Make sure you seal with resin, the top of the transom, so water does not intrude into plywood and start rotting it all over again. Install rudder hardware, drain plug, (note- you may have to adjust tank drains if plywood overlaps them) install plastic or aluminum trim cap ,1/2 inch wide, over entire transom top and bond with strong adhesive. I would avoid using screws to fasten trim cap as it tends to split the plys and allows water to intrude again.

You be the judge and dont feel you have to do it "MY" way. OK! Use your own best judgment. I was a part of Marine Plastics, and built the first generation of Banshees and Flying Juniors so I have had some experience, but I think common sense and thinking it out carefully, goes a long way. I have to replace my rotten transom as well for this season so I will be getting my hands dirty as well. Best of luck on your new Banshee and hope to meet you all at Folsom Lake this year.

I am selling my Banshee for $500.00. If you know some one that would like a Banshee please contact me. The boat is in good condition with all the rigging, sail, and trailer. The hull is white with a blue deck. I hate to sell it but I don't have the time to sail. Well pass the word to others.

I would like to now if it is possible to order from you or from any other organization a complete set of building plans of the above mentioned sailing boat. If it is, please send me details.

I just took ownership of my father's Banshee, which I spent much of my youth enjoying, and I could really benefit from a good copy of the information needed to get me back on the water. I tried printing on a HP 612c and just could not bring it in. If you can E-mail me, or the one listed on this E-mail, and let me know if you could help me out, I would be very thankfull.

I'd be glad to help. Let me make sure I understand... You tried to print some materials that I've put online? Are you trying to print the owners manual or the powerpoint "Rigging Your Banshee" slideshow? I'd be glad to mail a photocopy of the 4 page manual-- I'm affraid the powerpoint stuff is "history." All I have is a scan of a printout. I lost the original presentation.
Steve

I am please to welcome new Banshee owners to the fleet!!!! · Don and Rochelle Dahl purchased a 1977 banshee and ...· · Ken Cardwell purchased Banshee #6500· Welcome to Fleet One Sacramento Don, Rochelle and Ken!!! I plan to update the Fleet One web Site this weekend (www.geocities.com/banshee_fleet_one/) with a page listing Fleet One Banshee owners' names, sail numbers, and boat names. I will not include e-mail addresses or phone numbers

other than mine so you won't get spammed. If you don't want your name listed, please send me an e-mail, otherwise, I'll assume it is OK. The list I have >from Keith does not have boat names, so if you want me to include your boat's name, please send me an e-mail too. Now is the time to start getting those Banshees ship shape - Spring is on its way. For you brave soles, the spring series starts 10 AM March 18 at Folsom Lake Marina. Wednesday night fun races start May 3rd at 6PM Folsom Lake Marina. I look forward to seeing you all!!

1. when sailing downwind in moderate to strong winds my mainsail and boom behave wildly. Is there a way to effectively reef a Banshee mainsail? My mainsail is raised with a halyard so I can lower it but the boom lowers too! What do you folks do in strong winds? I'm guessing that you disconnect the outhaul and wrap the mainsail about the mast-- then reconnect the outhaul????

2. Also-- I have no boomyang on my rig. Can anyone give me some advice on building one from scratch?

To: Buesing Mark-QMB001 - Mark_Buesing-QMB001@email.mot.com
From: Steve Bonham
Subject: RE: Reefing Banshee Mainsail?

>You must have a vang.
>Give me your fax number and I'll sketch one out for you.
>If you have to reef, you should not be out!

Thanks! Got it and will visit West Marine in Augusta, GA to get the gear tomorrow. Steve

>Steve,
>you definitely need a vang; it will obviate the need to reef. You need at least a 2 to 1 purchase from eyering on boom to eyering on base of mast.

>My banshee has a complete vang that I bought from the sail shop with blocks, a jamcleat and swiveliing shackles. Buy it, (pricey) and clip it on. Most of the other guys have fancy setups.
>Mack -- Fleet one

From: Buesing Mark-QMB001
To: "'Steve Bonham'"
Subject: RE: Reefing Banshee Mainsail?
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000

You must have a vang. Give me your fax number and I'll sketch one out for you. If you have to reef, you should not be out!

From: "Mack Bishop"
To: "'Steve Bonham'"
Subject: RE: Reefing Banshee Mainsail?
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000

Steve, you definitely need a vang; it will obviate the need to reef. You need at least a 2 to 1 purchase from eyering on boom to eyering on base of mast. My banshee has a complete vang that I bought from the sail shop with blocks, a jamcleat and swiveliing shackles. Buy it, (pricey) and clip it on. Most of the other guys have fancy setups.

To: Karafiath Gabor CRBE
From: Steve Bonham
Subject: RE: Reefing Banshee Mainsail?
Attachments: :Steve's Mac:381:halyard.jpg:

You said:
>Steve > I am very curious about how the mainsail is raised with a halyard. can you describe this to me?

>Rigging a boom vang will probably solve your downwind sailing in heavy air and you will enjoy the boat a lot- lot - lot more!!! The boom vang is attached to a metal U shaped strap ( Called a "bail" ). This strap is fixed to the mast at a position just above the deckline. The closer to the deck the better. The other end of the vang is attached to a similar strap attached to the boom a short distance back from the gooseneck. The mast, boom and goosneck form a right triangle. The distance from the goosneck to the boom bail is a little ( maybe 8 inches) more than the distance from the goosneck to the deck. For starters you can make the boom vang with a 4 to 1 purchase pulley system and a cleat. The cleat can be on the pulleys or on the deck. It is better on the pulleys. In heavy air, have the vang tight. This is easy to do while you are sailing upwind since you have the mainsheet purchase to snug down the boom. As you let out the sheet the vang will keep the end of the boom from rising and there will be a lot more power in the sail and a lot less rudder control is needed. Keep your weight well aft and you can get some thrilling rides.

>Gabor Karafiath
> Silver Spring MD
> PS Do you know of anyone who has a mainsail to sell?

I' m attaching a jpg illustrating my mainsail-halyard setup. [halyard.jpg] You shopuld be able to view it with your web browser. My mainsail has a sleeve not a "sock" luff edge. The head of the sail is open.

1. slip the mainsail onto the mast base (lower piece).
2. Insert the topmast into the base.
3. attach the halyard to the eyelet at the head.
4. thread the halyard thru the pulley at the top of the topmast
5. Insert the mast base into the mast well in the deck.
6. attach boom, connect outhaul, & mainsheet
7. attach rudder
8. shove off and raise mainsail.

Hope this answers your question re; using a halyard. It's a bit of a hassle in a wind as the boom sits inside the boat- until the mainsail is almost all the way up. Generally it takes TWO to ensure no mishaps.

Nope- on the "mainsail to sell" question... Check with; Banshee Central 328 3rd Street W. Sacramento, CA 95605 hartsails@jps.net banshee411@aol.com OR Abbott Boats Sarnia, Ontario (519) 542-2771 abbott@ebtech.net http://www.abbottboats.com

To: "Mark Dawson" - markdawson@jps.net
From: Steve Bonham
Subject: Re: Reefing Banshee Mainsail?

I've got an illustration of the 8:1 double cascade in my trusty "Sailing for Dummies" book. I'll take it to West Marine tomorrow and get this "pulled" together for my next excursion. Happy sailing, Steve

>Check out "Sailing the Banshee in Big Air" on the Banshee web site. You need a vang and cunningham (downhaul) in order to control the sail in heavy wind. The vang will keep the boom from lifting when the sheet is let out.

>I use a double cascade 8:1 vang with the controls led to both sides of the boat. Look at the Harken and Ronstan web sites for illustrations of vang and cunningham systems. They are not tough to make, just line, blocks and cleats.

>Nobody reefs the banshee sail, and the outhaul is basically two positions, the distance from your thumb tip to the tip of your index finger with the two at right angle to one another (6") and the distance from tip of thumb to tip of smallest finger stretched as far apart as possible (8") measured at the point of the sails deepest draft. The more wind the less draft, the more waves the more draft.

>Consider loosing the halyard all together and sewing a piece of nylon webbing across the top of the sail sleeve. this will allow the sail to twist off more and open the leach in strong winds. The mast gives the top of the sail a huge lever to heel the boat and spilling some wind up there is good in a blow.

>If you cant figure the vang thing let me know I can take a picture of mine and send to you.

Thanks for the great info. I'll place an order today for the hardware. Yes. my mast and boom have the connectors in place for the vang. Just didn't know what to do with it... Happy sailing, Steve

>Steve,

>The national site http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bentz/haile.html has a good article on sailing the Banshee in heavy wind. Without a boom vang you're hosed in heavy conditions, because the boom will rise and lead to instant instability "death rolls". The boom vang should be set very tight in heavy winds - set it upwind so it is snug when strapped in on a beat. Then don't let the sail out too far. In heavy air, one "rule of thumb" is not to let the end of the boom to go forward of a line even with the traveler/thwart. If you have a traveler, it should be out all the way (although most Folsom Lake Banshee sailors don't think adding a traveler is worth it). If you are pleasure sailing, don't do deep runs - power reaches are much more fun. Pretend you are a catamaran and do the "wild thing" (reaches rather than runs).

>Regarding reefing, we never reef our Banshee sails - if it is that heavy, we go in. I have reefed Laser sails in our juniors program by wrapping the main once or twice around the mast. Mast reefing would work on a Banshee too, although you would need to tie down the clew (with a loop around the boom) since it would no longer reach the boom track.. If you do this be sure to remove the top batten. I don't know of any safe way to reef on the water, so decide before you go out.

>The stock banshee boom vang is a 2 to 1 which isn't enough. I'd recommend at least a 4 to 1. If you do a lot of heavy air you could even go higher. Does you boom and mast already have eyes on them to accept blocks for the vang or do you need the measurements? For a 4 -1 get a small double block with a becket (like a Harken 227 Micro Block or Harken 085 Bullet Block) for the mast and a plain double block (like a Harken 226 Micro Block or 084 Bullet Block) for the boom. Place a cam cleat in a convenient location (on the thwart if you don't have a traveler, or on the bulkhead behind the mast. If you do this, leave enough line that you can reach it from your normal sailing position (which in heavy air down wind is hiked out and back).
>Good luck and have fun!!
>Dean

From: "Abbott Boats Inc."
To: "'sbonham
Subject: banshee parts
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000

Dear Mr. Bonham; Thank you for your inquiry. We have Banshee mast collars for $6.50 Cnd. plus shipping and handling. You can pay by mastercard - fax to the number below the credit card number, expiry date and authorized card holder name. If you have any questions, please contact this office.

From: "Dean Eppley"
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: Re: Reefing Banshee Mainsail?
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000

Glad I could help. If you find the 4 to 1 isn't enough, you can double it to 8-1 with a cascade. Just add one more single block to the boom and another eye to the mast. My poor attempt at a drawing is attached. Be sure to use stainless steel rivets to connect the eye to the mast.

From: "Tom Goodwin" - tgoodwin@macnexus.org
Subject: Re: Reefing Banshee Mainsail?
To: Steve Bonham
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000

Q#1...no we don't wrap the sail around the mast. our sails are cut to be used w/o reefing. we do a little out-haul and a little cunningham...that's it. anyway the battens really won't let you do too much. We sometimes wrap for the kids around the docks when the kids are 100 pounds. not for regular sailing. When it blows too much we either go-for-it or go home. There is an alternative sail that works fair/middling that has the battens running vertically, that way it can be 'reefed' to the smallest size. (you'd need a looonnng out-haul/reef line) We don't have a sail like that here in our fleet of thirty boats however.

q#2 about the vang? well you'd better look at any other small boat to get a visual idea. i use a 'waterfall' type and it doesn't help one bit. You're probably best to just use a double block assembly and forget some tricky other way.

Poor attempt my butt! Your illustration was great. My 4:1 Vang kit should arrive today or tomorrow. I did order an extra double and single block so I very well may step up to an 8:1. The responses to my question have been outstanding. I've gotten about ten very detailed and quite helpful replies regarding using/designing a vang, alternatives, and reefing the Banshee mainsail. What a wealth of knowledge we have here. The Banshee community is alive and well. I'm quite jealous of the group you Folsom Lake folks have cultivated. Must be a lot of fun! I plan to take a few photos next time out. I'll post the url when they are on-line.

I got quite a few replies to my question. Most said you don't reef a Banshee mainsail. Just use the vang 4:1, 8:1, or 16:1... and When it get too rough go in. A couple said they have reefed their mainsail by wrapping the mainsail about the mast. Requires doing so prior to sailing and requires removal of the uppermost batten. I suspect that it would be possible to lower a portion of the mainsail and fold it atop the boom (true reefing) IF one used a boom hoist running from the end of the boom to the top of ther mast and down to a cleat.

>i have three banshees
>one has reef cringles sewn into the sail but the others do not would be interested in info about reefing we sail on Heron Lake in New Mexico
>thanks

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000
To: Steve Bonham
From: Mike Salmon
Subject: Re: JC strap???

Steve: You're more than welcome! I got the impression you intend to use the jc strap as a substitute for a vang. This is to let you know the two have entirely different functions and one will not substitute for the other! If I've misunderstood, don't bother reading any farther. A vang keeps your boom positioned horizontally when you ease the sail (i.e., when reaching and running). You will need at least 4:1 purchase and 8:1 is even better, given the size of the Banshee mainsail. It should also be double-ended you can adjust the vang while hiking from either side of the boat. Incidentally, it's easy to make a 4:1 system into an 8:1 system. If you want another sketch, let me know. The jc strap, on the other hand, is used only in light air, and functions to keep the boom to leeward even when you heel the boat to windward (which you should do going downwind in very light air). The jc strap is unnecessary and shouldn't be used unless you're sailing in very light air (or believe you'll encounter light air at some time during a race).

[Mike has a page entitled "Rigging Your Banshee" on the Nat'l page site. It has some great tips on using a vang, J-C Strap, bailers, daggerboard gasket, hiking straps, and a tiller "preventer."]

>Thanks so much for taking the time to explain and illustrate the JC-Strap. I got your drawings this weekend and TRUELY a picture is worth a thousand words... On-line friends who go to such lengths are worth a lot more!

>I've ordered a 4:1 Vang and will give it a shot first -- if that is as useless as a few folks have told me I'll try the JC-Strap. I may even try to rig up a combo Vang/JC-Strap contraption. I really like the idea of the boom "hoist" [also called a top lift of boom lift] and will implement that on my next sail.

Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000
To: banshee
From: brian hughes
Subject: sail for sale ???

I am looking for a sail as my sail was stolen. Could someone point me in the right direction to replace my sail , I do recreational sailng

Is there an active Banshee racing class. I have a boat that's been in storage for years, and might race it if there was a fleet within a reasonable distance of southeast Michigan.

Date: Sun, 07 May 2000
From: Bob Esperanza
Subject: Banshee site
To: Steve Bonham

Found your rigging site today, and saw a lot of informative stuff. I was wondering if you had anything in the way of templates for the daggerboard or rudder? I'm without a set and could really use some ideas for making one. Thanks.

I am sorry to ask you this, but I have just acquired a banshee sailboat and need to know how to rig it correctly. Since I have obviously visited your web site, for some reason I can't seem to print your documents off the Internet. Could you please email me the documents so that I can print them. I am also in need of some replacement parts if you know of any information about where I might get them from could you please forward that information also. New sailor.

Just finished uploading my new and revised "Rigging Your Banshee" pages. Comments, suggestions welcome.

Thank you for helping me get to your sight so that I could print out all the rigging information for my Sailboat. The person that I purchased it from did not know how to rig it right and I would like to learn to appropriate way. I just picked up by boat today and am excited to get the information and get out in the yard to practice rigging it.

You are welcome. Glad I could help. Where are you going to go sailing with your new (to you) Banshee? If you have any trouble with the instructions let me know-- Steve

I didn't have any problems rigging the boat. I plan to sail the boat on the lake 6 minutes from my home, Lake Thunderbird in Oklahoma.

In my "Rigging Your Banshee" pages I mention the weight and lenghts and on my main Banshee page there are links to places to purchase this stuff on-line. Good luck, Steve

>Thanks for the reply! The info is great. I am still in the process of getting her ready to sail. I had to replace the teak, Wow that stuff is expensive! Everything seems functional. I am a little worried about the hull taking so much sun over the years. Hopefully this summer I will get her on the water.

>I do have one question: What type of rope should I use for the lines. I will figure out the sizes but I don't know what material to use or where to get it.

>Again thanks for the info, you will really help me a bunch when the time comes to put it all back together.

From: "BRYAN A. BENTZ"
To: Steve Bonham
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Rigging Your Banshee Updated

Hi, I just found your web site after some searching. I recently found a Banshee and am excited but no nothing about sailing. Your information is great since I have had to do lots of repair and the rigging was not clear. Thanks for providing this essential information.

Glad the banshee stuff was useful Russ, Where do you sail? BTW, there is a great book for beginning sailors that you may find useful-- _Sailing for Dummies_. It covers dingies to crewed boats. Well worth the $20. I've been sailed for 7 years now and read several boks--- it's the best one out there.

Just went through your direction on rigging banshees. Want to thank you for a great job and welcome resource. My experience was been with BeetleCats (old wooden gaff rigged dinghy's of Cape Cod) and Coronado's mostly. Recently got my hands on Banshee and now can double check a few things I've been doing against your directions. Great job! - Thanks. Tyler

Thanks for your comments. Sorry to reply so late-- been sailing on Roanoake Sound on the outer banks of NC. A wonderful place to sail the banshee if you can get there.

To: Byeager1945
From: Steve Bonham
Subject: Re: Thank you for the Rigging Instructions....

Glad that you found the pages useful. Where do you sail? And are you aware of the other Banshee websites- Brian's and the Folsom lake group? Steve

From: Byeager1945
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000
Subject: Re: Thank you for the Rigging Instructions....
To: sbonham

Yes, I am aware of the other Banshee Websites. They were the first sites I found when I first bought the boat. It is great to read about the adventures of others. I sail mostly on state park lakes here in central Pa. and also on Seneca Lake in New York State. I'm not into racing, I just like to put up the sail, lay back, and go where the wind takes me. It is very relaxing for me. Thanks for you interest.

Steve, It was only about 2.5 miles across - round trip of 5 miles. For me, it was a great experience. I gained some confidence. Next year, I hope to sail "down" the lake towards Watkins Glen and back. Maybe double my distance.

Thank you for your well done rigging guide for the Banshee. It has been a big help. A few weeks ago I picked-up a Banshee with two sails (original white and rainbow color) and trailer for a reasonable price. It needs a little work, but is mostly serviceable. I made a new centerboard gasket out of and old motorcycle innertube, like you mentioned. My transom is a little weak, but will probably last at least a few more seasons. My boom had been repaired by a previous owner reasonably well, but I made it a little better by adding a washer to the pin that goes into the center of the boom, to handle the thrust load. I will definitely add a "boom lift line" as you have shown. To keep the rudder from falling out, I drilled a hole in the bottom rudder gudgeon pin for a hair-pin-clip, and put a lanyard on it. Right now all I need to sail are some plugs

You are quite welcome-- glad it was helpful. That's a good idea on the rudder. I'll check that possibily on my set-up.

Steve: Thanks for the tips. I just bought a 10 year-old yellow banshee. Much to my surprise, there was no halyard, just a small clip at the top of the mast for the grommet. Thanks to your page, it looks like an easy fix for this novice sailer.

From: "Michael Mairs"
To: Steve Bonham
Subject: sail stays
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000

To my knowledge no one is staying their mast-- I've been curious myself as to if anyone is using a jib or genoa on a Banshee. So far, I have not found anyone that is. Did you try contacting the guys at Lake Folsom, California? or Brian Bentz at MIT? Steve

Try this webpage: Banshee Sailplan. It has an illustration of sail with 4 batten pockets. Lengths are 36", 36", 30" and 18" I'm not sure what you mean by "taper"-- but hopefully this page and the other associated pages in the Banshee Racing rulebook will help.

You're welcome. I didn't know that those things were called stays-- Learn some everyday, eh? Best of luck with your Banshee. Steve

>Thanks so much.
>in my collar they are stays, of course in sails they are battens. thanks for your patience, things are coming together nicely.
>mike mairs
>-----

From: "mike"
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: Re: OK then, battens
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000

Thanks so much. in my collar they are stays, of course in sails they are battens. thanks for your patience, things are coming together nicely.

Glad you found the pages useful. Where are you going to sail your Banshee? Breezy days, Steve

>Steve, I really appreciate your great rigging instructions for the Banshee. I've had mine I bought mine from a guy that raced them about ten years ago. I only sailed it a few times then stored it for all these years. Well this weekend I'm going to give it another shot. Your rigging instructions were great. Thanks.
>Randy

I am trying to gather information as to what the worth is of a Banshee in good operating condition is, including a trailer.

I paid $500 for boat and trailer (includeds sails, daggerboard, etc.) when mine was already 15 years old back around 1992. It has been well worth the hours of fun it has provided. Steve

>I am trying to gather information as to what the worth is of a Banshee in good operating condition is, including a trailer. Thank you for your help,
>R. Augur

Steve: About thee years ago I took a sailing class and really enjoyed sailing. I am now looking at buying a boat. In the class, I sailed a Butterfly. I have been looking at Sunfish but have come across a Banshee that is in good shape. Since I am a novice can you tell me which boat may be more appropriate for me. I live in north Georgia (Rome) and will be sailing on local lakes and along the Gulf. Since you also live in Georgia, can you tell me which months we usually have adequate wind to enjoy the sport? Any comparrisons that you can give between the two boats is apprciated.

Memories... I learned to sail in a Sunfish. Good little boat. Not as fast as a Banshee. Can't take many folks with you. But it is a sturdy boat- and the company )Vanguard) still exists and will be there for parts, etc.

My Comparison: Some of these are specs some are my personal ratings (personal ratings [on a 10 point scale- with 10 ideal] marked with *).

	Sunfish (Vanguard)	Banshee
Length	13'9"	13'
Beam	49"	60"
Draft	36" (centerboard)	46" (daggerboard)
Weight (hull)	140 lbs	130 lbs
Transport Note: it takes TWO to get either cartopped!	cartop,trailer	cartop,trailer
# passengers	singlehander I've sailed a Sunfish with a couple of small kids on the foredeck in light winds. Successful with one small adult there too.	singlehander (but can hold 3+) can hold three adults (in cockpit) and I've put as many as 5 (<10 years old) kids on it with me.
mainsail area (sq ft)	76'	86'
Set-up time	10 min	20 min
Sailing ease*	10	9
Ideal wind speed	5-10 mph	5-15 mph
ease to right capsize*	10	8; easy - can't remember capsizing my 70 lb son can right it
Sailing joy*	6; fast, easy	9; FASTER, more on board, easy (on ideal days)
Maintence/Parts	still making them, parts are easy to get	out of biz in early 80's, parts hard to find

I'm not into racing tho I'd buy a Banshee over a Sunfish myself, unless it was a NEW Sunfish for $300 or such a great deal. I paid $500 for my Banshee and trailer 8 years ago and it has been worth 10 times that in joy.

Thanks for responding to my previous question regarding the Banshee. I noticed that your craft appears to have a retractable rudder, the one I am looking at does not. Was this an option or did you modify the rudder yourself?

It's the way it came with my used Banshee. I'm not sure if it was an original piece or not-- it seems to be the same styling and type of wood (mahogany) of the dagger board so I think it is original.

Your rigging gide has been a wonderfull help for small ideas. For a long time I have been wanting to see somthing like this ... I picked up my banshee in a very sad state from the trading post .. after a few weekends work I have a sailing model ... minus a good paint job (yet!) I noticed that you pull the sail up and down via a halyard .. do you find that it damages that sail in anyway having to chaff against the mast at all ? i also noticed in your photos a number of jam cleats on the side bulkheads (seats) what are these used for ? My rudder was in a realy sad state one of the previous owners had attempted to fix the rudder with fibregalss but didnt sad it and ended up galssing over dirst and peeling varnish !!! ugh . To top it off he put it back on round the wrong way!!! sharp trailing edge became the leading edge!!! anyway i sanded and regalssed it and its as good as new ! so thats a bonus .. however having owned a hobby cat for many years i rigged up a system on the tiller that i could raise and lower the rudder by a pully system ... next time you see a hobby cat go and have a look its as easy as pie to set up. Also I am desperate to know the length of the boom-lift that you used, my back yard is very constrictive and makes setting up the boat to work it out virtually impossible. did you use two pack paint to paint the bottom or redo the gelcoat? Thank you for your wonderfull ideas .. your efforts are a bonus to the Banshee owners out there .. By the way im living in Australia... wonder how many were imported to australia .. i wouldnt think too many.. any how must go .. keep up the good work!!!

To: "Andrew Nye"
From: Steve Bonham
Subject: RE : Banshee
X-Attachments: :Steve's Mac:18422:rudder.jpg:

Halyard-- there is some minor wear on the sleeve particularly where the nuts are on the lower mast. Nothing that concerns me. I think it will last another 20 years! The jam cleats-- I have no idea... I used to think that I could put up a small jib but have found nobody that has tried this. Then I thought maybe a couple of trapeze wires??? I've decided that it must just be for securing to dock.. If you find out otherwise let me know. Hobie! Cool. I just purchased a 1984 Hobie18 last weekend. I'm taking it out this weekend. I'm sure there will be a little adjustment required!

Rudder-tiller-- I have a bungee connected to the rudder that keeps it down/up. I'm attaching a sketch [rudder.jpg] of the jury-rig.

Boom Lift-- measures 19 feet 4 inches including the clips (you'll have to do the metric conversion-- sorry) Paint-- yes. A two pack. Used a gallon + hardner. Got about 5 coats(!) on it before it became unusable. Took about 3 hours. I wish now I'd spent more time sanding and shaping. The glass drip lines and uneven countours are MUCH more prominent after the paint dries. Best of luck! Steve

From: "Andrew Nye"
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: Re: Banshee
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000

Thank you for your reply!! Most helpfull!! When I read your letter in regard to the idea of putting up at jib, i have to admit that I thought of doing the same thing .... for a while. That was until I was sailing with my younger brother out in the bay when .. opps im in the middle of a race of these long, fixed keeled MASSIVE single handers from RQYS ( my local squadron) dont ask me what they are because i dont remember they had a main and jib up sailing along nice and fast, then I come tearing through the lot!!! Shouts of amasement from all around!! I think that half the fright these ppl had was the sight of the banshee ( this was before its first coat of paint and some basic sanding back to the original gelcoat. UGY sight against these polished wood expensive things ) Any way making sure I didnt get in their wind and way I was beating them up to the bouy and after they put up their kites ... no chance. So im sticking with the main .. its massive anyway.

As for the trapeeze .... mmm my experience with them is quite large and i would LOVE to put one on the banshee since the kick strap is useless ( im 6'5 and long legs are a pain ). However a unstayed mast ... esp one thats designed to flex to flatten the sail im not to sure it would take it. as long as i hang onto the main sheet and the extention tiller my length is fine any how. What I also did was make a loop of rope about 1.5 meters long (metric opps) put a loop one one end that fits around the mast and a smaller loop at the end. This serves as a "handle" for my younger brother to hang onto. Though 1.5 meters might be a bit long, im sure that you can with a bit of experimentation get the right length. It makes his ride more enjoyable and he acts as live ballast so I dont need a trapeeze.

I was looking at your sketch [see msg above] and (after thinking how well done it was!) thought that you can fasten your tiller in a much easier way, ill see if i can get you a picture for you. You use this piece of metal that you buy from a sailing shop. Ill find out what they are called. its only about an inch long and springy ill include a sketch (not as good as yours ) on how it works. Saves a heap of time and effort and NEVER wears out or can get lost. Costs about a buck too. How it works is when you put the rudder on the metal bends down flat as the pegs move past. once past it springs up. the rudder is going nowhere fast. To take it off with your finger you push the metal flat and take off the rudder EASY!!! The thing is made form stainless steel so no probs!

From: CHNix
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 19:20:30 EDT
Subject: beach launch
To: sbonham

Steve: When you sail along the beach, how do you put in? Do you use one of the two wheel carts? If so, what do you recommend? I will be putting in by myself?

I do not sail along the beach in my Banshee. I sail in freshwatere lakes and in the intercoastal waterway inside Hilton Head island where I launch via a boat ramp. I've heard of people launching a Banshee in the surf tho. I'd think it a bit risky-- depending upon wave size and frequency. I understand that to accomplish a surf launch you should have the daggerboard and rudder up and as soon as a wave comes ashore you race into the surf perdendicular to the waves. I've not been willing to try this as I'm fearful of the damage the boat (and me!) would sustain if it broached with mast in place. I've put enough time in in figerglass repairs already! You might want to ask one of the guys who sail in California- there are some in the SF Bay area. I'm CCing this to Dean Epply from Folsom Lake Fleet One. He may have some experience in this. [Dean pls let me know what you think]

From: Smocinlizard
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000
Subject: I went sailing last month in the Sf Bay delta.
To: sbonham

I don't know if you remember me, but my name is Randy and I e-mailed you after having used your rigging istructions to get my Banshee up and running again. I had a great time but I capsized my boat several times. Not a problem. I just used the centerboard and pulled it back up. I broke the rudder extention handle off and lost it in the water. Do you have any suggestions as to where I can find a replacement?

To: Smocinlizard
From: Steve Bonham
Subject: Re: I went sailing last month in the Sf Bay delta.

Glad you had a good time. Half the fun of having a Banshee is righting her. Abott boats (Canada) is a pretty good source for Banshee parts. For this part however you may be able to get something similar in several places. You may be able to buy a similar METAL tiller extenstion arm for instance at a Laser supplier on the web. >www.abbottboats.com >Abbott Boats Inc. >1458 London Road >Sarnia, Ontario >N7S 1P7 >Canada >Pho: (519) 542 - 2771 >Fax: (519) 542 - 2324

Where do you tie the downhaul to or how is it rigged? Wouldn't the pulling of the saild using a downhaul cause unecessary wear and tear to the sail? Where do I hook the downhaul to?

If done *properly* the downhaul should not result in great wear upon the mainsail. However, as I've described doing this (cleating to the deck on one side of the mastwell in my rigging guide) there may well be a problem. I've heard this concern by other Banshee sailors beside you. It seems after looking at other rigging systems that it would be best to cleat the downhaul line to a point directly in line with the mast and that that point should pivot with the boom/mast. My suggestion would be to mount an additional pulley/cleat combo to the shackle on the mast near the mastwell. I've got my boomvang there as of now.

Thanks again for the Banshee Rigging Instructions. I utilized them this summer on Seneca Lake in New York state. I was able to sale across the lake and back this year. This has been my goal for three years and I accomplished it on the first day of sailing this year. I was much more secure with the rigging this year than in the past.

To: CHNix
From: Steve Bonham
Subject: Re: boom and mast
X-Attachments: trailer.jpg

I use two or three rubber bungees to attach the two mast pieces and the boom to the top surface of my "Dilly" trailer-- just beneath the hull of the Banshee. I've placed them inside the boat on a few occasions, but they do bang around (depending on the road conditions) and will chip up the glasswork in no time. When "bungeing" (word?/sp?) the pieces to the trailer it is important to bind them well so that one will not slip out easily. I use lengths of bungee about 36-46" in length so that I can snake them around *AND* between each piece. Then I test each by trying to pull it out from the rear of the trailer. I'm attaching a diagram [trailer.jpg] of what I try to do to insure non-slip positioning.

>Steve:
>When you are towing your boat do you just lay the boom and mast inside the boat, do you attach them to the trailer, or what?
> Chuck

Hello! I have an 1981 banshee. Got it last year with very little rigging information. I found these tips very useful. I owned a Venture 25 for eight years several years ago. I like the topping lift idea (line the holds the boon in back) very much. I never thought about it on this boat, but it is very handy. My Banshee needed the transom redone. Over half was gone to dry rot. I dug it all out and replaced it with new wood this year. Turned out pretty good. I've only had the boat out 5 times so I'm still learning a lot about the best way to rig it. Raising and lowering the main has been the biggest challenge. The tips on the sail outhaul was great too. I like the detail you gave on the size and length of the lines. All very helpful information. I just wish it wasn't October here in central Illinois and I could get it out a few more times this year. It's almost time to be thinking about putting it in its winter home for the next 5-6 months. Bummer I know! Thank you so much for the detailed information. It is incredible to find. Let me know if there are any questions you have that I might be able to answer for you.

Glad the pages were of assistance. Buy a wetsuit guy. and booties and a hood. I sail all year. Yeah-- I know the weather IS different here but you may have a few more sails during the year with this gear. I've found full wetsuits on ebay for $40. Something to think about.

From: "The Phillips Family"
To: sbonham
Subject: Removing mainsheet when you are back at the dock
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001

How can you conveniently remove the mainsail from the outhaul grommet when you are finished sailing so that the mainsail is luffing in the wind to keep things safe and to keep the boom from whipping around and cracking you in the head.

From: "The Phillips Family"
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: Re: Removing mainsheet when you are back at the dock
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001

I have a open style banshee sail as you do. How can I use the boom life line to lower the sail? Does the boom life line have some sort of pulley system? Or if I have the open style top on the sail do I need to use a halyard to lower the sail? The folks at Folsom Lake where I sail with the banshee fleet dont use a halyard but they let the sail loose from the outhaul and let it flap in the breeze till they get their banshee on a trailer and out of the lake and onto a parking lot where they proceed to disassemble the boat.

To: "The Phillips Family"
From: Steve Bonham
Subject: Re: Removing mainsheet when you are back at the dock
X-Attachments: :Steve's Mac:18422:boomlift.jpg:

The boom lift line is specifically for keeping the boom OUT of the boat when you do lower the mainsail with a halyard. There are no pulleys involved. See attached image [boomlift.jpg] for use.

Hi - We are family of six (kids 1, 5,9,10) living on Cape Cod and just acquired a 1980 Banshee in need of some work and a sail. With great websites like yours for guidance I think we can manage the repairs, but I priced a new sail at Supersailmakers.com at $503.! So we are writing for help in obtaining a used one. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for a fantastic website - rigging the boat for its first sail is a great goal for us to shoot for!

Thanks for your comments. Glad the pages were useful to you. $$503!? Sounds high to me since I only paid $500 for my 1974 boat and trailer when I bought it used in 1991 and my sail was then in good shape. Now I have a few patches made at a couple of canvas repair businesses. If your sail is still decent you might go that route for a while. I've had 2 rips (a 6" tear and a batten pocket) repaired for less than $70. I'd look around for other bids-- there are many places avaliable on the web. Look at the ads in Sailing or Sail magazines for urls. Finding a used Banshee sail for sale is a long shot I'm affraid. But you could try Abbot Boats. Their url is on my Banshee webpage.

From: "Chuck Nix"
To: Steve Bonham
Subject: Masthead sheave
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001

The masthead sheave on my Banshee sailboat has deteriorated and needs replacing. I cannot locate one in the West Marine Catalog. Do you know where I might find a replacement?

Hmmmm... I'm not sure what you mean by a masthead sheave. Can you describe it's location? Steve

>Steve,
>The pulley at the top of the mast that is a little over two inches in diameter.
>Chuck Okay- got'cha! Check with Layline- The PDF catalog is at: http://www.layline.com/store/printcatalog/llpg12.pdf They carry all the Harken blocks at reasonable prices. For this job I'd suggest either: HARKEN H224 Single block (max. load 200 pounds). $5.91 + shipping HARKEN H225 Single block with becket (max. load 200 pounds). $6.84 + shipping I'd get the one with the becket (H225) because I use a boomlift line on my boat. Do you have a open topped sleeve on your sail? If so, you might consider using this too. See illustration at: boomlift.jpg Hope this is what you are after.

From: "Byrnel E Graham"
To: Steve Bonham
Subject: i have never
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001

my first sailing experience was in an invitation, and since then i have taken lessons on a wayfarer. what is the main difference between a banshee and a wayfarer, other than the single sail??? (i am thinking of buying one very soon) thank you in advance for your help!!!

Compare info on these two sites. WAYFARER http://www.uswayfarer.org/ BANSHEE Banshee Looks to me (at a glance that: the Wayfarer is a wood/fiberglass boat 16' long x 6' beam (wide) and they seem to be expensive and quite a good boat but maybe complex for a novice (with Main, jib and spinnakers all possible). The Wayfarer also seems to be a bit pricy in comparison. Used boats going for $2k+. the Banshee is a fiberglass boat that is 13' long and has a 5' beam. Mainsail only. Used boat when you can find them go for about $500. They quit making this boat in early 80s by the way so it is hard to find parts. Something to consider. But it is a joy to sail... and quite easy to learn to sail.

Just recently purchased a dinghy, unknown make, which is very similar to a banshee.The picture in the brochure is very, very close to my boat, but, my boat is virtually impossible to cartop. takes 4 adults to move her. I noticed that you trailer your boat and was wondering what size, type, manufacturer you recommend? any suggestions for my $40 boat would be appreciated. Wondering.... my unstayed, raked mast is wood, boom is wood. The mast has an open ended fitting about 10 ' up and a pair of holes in the bow ( missing fitting i guess) for a forestay? guide for halyard? Do you know of any links not on this page? Many thanks in advance for any and all thoughts.

Interesting! I am curious about what type of boat you've found. Wood mast (raked) & boom- sounds like perhaps a older Wayfarer? There is a website for these boats at: www.wayfarer.com. This page has links to other pages. Check your favorite search engine for more. They look a lot like a Banshee but are longer (16' compared to 13'), wider (6' to 5'), and heavier. Sounds like you may have one of the older boats that were mostly constructed of wood. You may have a "treasure in progress" on your hands! Looks like you can raise a LOT of sailarea on a Wayfarer. Regarding a trailer- I have a "Dilly" and I believe it is the smallest one they make (appox 14'). I didn't find a website for them - but any Marine business should have a catalog. My trailer is very light (about 250 pounds) and has been easy to maintain-- although I sail mostly in fresh water. It has 13" wheels. I have seen similar used trailers for sale in newspapers and on the web for $100-500 depending on condition. A new one will run you over $1200 most likely. On the "mast/halyard track" question... you've got me there. I'm pretty sure that Wayfarer's have a forestay tho. Maybe the website above will clarify. Let me know if you track down more details on your boat. Sounds like you are in for a lot of fun.

From: "Kevin I. Coats"
To: Sbonham
Subject: Banshee value
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001

I wish to sell my 1981 Banshee but am uncertain as to a selling price. Despite its' years, the boat is in mint condition as well as her rigging and sail. I want to ask a fair price yet do not want to give it away. Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

Hi Kevin, Wow. Good question. I saw one go for over $800 on eBay last year-- without a trailer. I purchased my 1974 Banshee (with a trailer) in 1991 for $500. It needed some work - several significant cracks in the hull and impending transom work. Sad to say your boat might be worth MORE in pieces! Abbot boats sells a new Banshee daggerboard for $200 or so. A rudder/tiller for 175. A sail for $300. If I was you-- I would try to see the package on eBay for the longest period I could-- and advertise to every Banshee and sailing page on the web. They are great little boats. I would gladly pay $1000 for mine knowing what I know now; play up the advantages in your ad: 20 minutes to rig Light weight; 130 pounds Fast - planes in 12 knot breeze Easy to sail Unsinkable self-bailing after a capsize a 75 pound boy ot girls can right the boat after capsize.

From: "richard schockner"
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: Re: Date: Mon, 14 May 2001

Steve, thanks for the response. L.O.A.- is that the measurement from the bow to stern in a straight line or stern to bow along the hull? Our boat is about 12 X 5, so is a little smaller than a Banshee. 20' mast wooden, boom -pair of 2 x 4's. Rigging looks identical to Banshee, deck and cockpit look the same. Fiberglass over ply on transom. 2 drains. Your site was the first that i've found even close. Would I be correct in assuming that over the years many classes of dinghy have come and gone? Steve if know any these answers, thanks for all your help.-rick

>Rick, LOA is "length over all" -- a straight line measurement along the longest axis. 12' - Not a Wayfarer then... Yes, there are certainly LOTS of classes of dinghys-- and of course many folks years ago just made their own from Popular Mechanics drawings and such. You may have just such a boat. Steve

From: "Kevin I. Coats"
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: Re: Banshee value
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001

Steve, Thanks for responding to my question about the Banshee. Because she is in such great shape, including sail, I was thinking about $1000 which you validated as well. You gave some great tips on features I should emphasize. Thanks again for your help. It's much appreciated.

I have a question about the mast on my Banshee. The mast on my boat has two notches on the bottom that a bolt in the bottom of the hole that recives the mast is suppose to fit. That bolt passes through a strip of metal (sleeve) that is should line the bottom of the hole. This metal sleeve is bent and does not allow the mast to fit onto the bolt. The strip cannot be pryed back into place. I can tie the mast off to an eye on the deck and minimize its rotation. Do you think I should go to the effort of trying to remove the strip and bend it back into place? I don't know how much work might be involved. It may be considerable. But I am a little worried about the mast not resting properly on the bolt and the bottom of the mast not having the sleeve around it.

I just have a stainless steel bolt (unthreaded -except on the nut end) in the bottom of my mast well. I don't know that you MUST have a solid "mating" of the mast notches and the bolt. The mainsheet will keep the boom from swinging too far starboard or port-- as long as you have a figure 8 knot in the end. It is essential to have something in the bottom tho... otherwise the mast may "eat away" the interior of your hull. The bolt preventing the mast from bottoming out should be UNTHREADED. I had a threaded bolt in there originally and the bolt seriously chewed into those mast notches you mentioned as the mast moved fore and aft! Now the sleeve makes perfect sense! Would I try to replace the bolt and sleeve? NOT unless you feel that the mast well column is damaged/deteoriating. AND YOU SHOULD CHECK THIS CAREFULLY! (-- use a flashlight inside the mast well (from outside) while looking inside the hull via the inspection port). Look for cracks or thin areas. If there is damage already you'll be faced with adding fiberglass around the mastwell INSIDE the hull. NOT a fun job.

Were you able to reach through the access hole to remove the bolt and replace it?

In a word-- Yes... but it was not easy. I'm 5'6", 140 and still it was hard to get my arm inside to the mast well while still seeing what was happening. It was done mostly by "braille." There were large fender washers on each side that are contoured to the shape of the mast well column. When you remove the bolt and associated pieces be sure to check the area for fractures. My boat did have some cracks radiating from the aft bolt hole. I reglassed it- but it was a messy job.

Recently I bought a Banshee from someone who had only had it out a few times and decided to buy a boat he could get more use out of. I have never sailed on a banshee, and in fact I haven't been sailing in about 15 years or so. I learned how to sail on an El Toro. I have made a copy of your rigging directions, and slowly I am making sense of them. However, I don't think the previous owner had the right kind of lines. For the halyard I think the line I have is ok, but he had a very coarse rope with a lot of hair? on it for the mainsheet. I think I should get a new one, and I'm not sure where to find it, or how much (length) to buy, or what it would cost. Also, there is no outhaul or downhaul, and I'm pretty sure there is no boom vang. Do you know if there are any Banshee owners/sailors in Lake County, CA? I'm hoping I could find someone who could help me out so I could get out on the lake. I live at Clear Lake, California. I'm eager, and frustrated. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

I'm CCing this reply to the Banshee Fleet One group in California. I'll bet someone there would be glad to help. Maybe someone is in (or knows someone) in the Lake County area. Sounds like your mainsheet is fried! My mainsheet is 25 feet long and is a soft, pliable braided 5/8" line. You want something that will not kink-- so stay away from the lines that appear to be "stiff." You can get the parts (blocks) you need for a boomyang via the web or in a West Marine store.

Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001
To: sbonham
From: "Thomas G. Hippert, P.C."
Subject: Banshee ideas thanks

Steve Bonham, I really enjoyed your rigging photos. I still do it by memory, and I have to start over again at times. I have saved your site and It is fun viewing. Looks like a lot of work went into this. My father and I sailed our two Banshee's for years. He died in 1996 and I am now the proud owner of both of them. He was good with his hands and glue, I am not. Since we live in Tucson, I am my own repair shop. My boats are about as old as yours and also need new wood and one needs a new rudder. If you have any ideas or suggestions, please tell me. I want to get them both sailing again. Tucson is in the desert, but we have several lakes a few hours away and the Sea of Cortez about 3 hours away in Mexico. There are few things I like more than sailing a Banshee in the ocean for that hour or so between an increase in the wind and the larger waves. Glad to hear you still enjoying yours and thanks for the neat photos and details.

Glad you found the Banshee info useful. Yeah, it took a few hours to get it all together, but it was fun. Sorry to hear about the loss of your Dad. That is nice that you were able to sail with him though. Good memories I'm sure.... must have been a lot of fun. I too was not too good with repairs initially either. Now, I consider myself pretty adept. You need to consider replacing your wood? Are you speaking of your transom?- the rear wall of your Banshee? If so, I can provide advice there. As for the rudder, what shape is it in? Rebuilding it (replacing the wood pieces) could be difficult but do-able task. Tell me more about the condition of each of these areas.

I can't thank you enough for your astonishingly complete webpage on rigging the Banshee. It may interest you to know that my Banshee is a result of an impulse to learn to sail on a one-man sailboat. It was listed for sale in the classifieds and I bit. When I got the boat home, I pawed through the basket of ropes, pulleys, screws and geegaws, then raised the mast and affixed the boom, at which point I realized I hadn't a clue how to even begin assembling the running rigging. Your enormous contribution was exactly what I needed. No well gasket was included and there are a few repairs to make, as well, so I must also thank you for linking me to Abbott Boats. How odd it is that the Banshee was designed here in the San Francisco Bay area, but I must shop for parts up in Canada. The world is, indeed, getting smaller every day. Wel thanks again. I hope you won't mind if bother you again when I find myself in over my head (No pun intended!).

Glad you found the pages useful. Best of luck with your Banshee. Are you aware of the Banshee "Fleet One" group in the Sacramento area?

My name is Tom Peloquin. I was given a Banshee sailboat for free. It needs a good cleaning, but that isn't the real problem. The big problem is the transom is rotted out. Is this a common problem on the Banshee? If so what is the most common method of repair. So far I have chiseled out the old transom. I plan on cutting and gluing in a new transom using polyester resin or epoxy resin. Which is best? I really look forward to trying my new boat. It looks like it will be as fast boat

Wow. Nice way to get a Banshee-- even if it needs work! Congratulations on necoming a new banshee skipper. You are in for some fun. It is a fast boat and QUITE a kick in 12-15 knot winds! Rotten transoms on old Banshee are quite common. I totally replaced mine... cut of the whole stern with a circular saw-- but it was a hellacious job and I don't think I'd do that radical a repair again. It took over a month- working most every night and weekends. The folks I've talked with in the Banshee sailing community pretty much agree that a wiser choice involves hollowing out the old transom (leaving fore and aft fiberglass walls intact) and filling with as strong and as light a filler as you can find. Here is some more advice from Doctor Rot:

Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001
From: William Kremer
To: Steve Bonham
Subject: Re: Many Thanks

I had found the Sacramento group on the web, but hadn't made contact. Until I take the first water along the keel I won't consider myself a sailor. The help you'''ve provided will expedite that day substantially. Thanks. BK

P.S. I am not surprised that you hale from someplace with Excellence in Teaching involved.

Tom Peloquin again. I found a rip in the sail that came with my boat. (nothing is truly free) My question is, where can I get a new sail and how much can I expect to pay. The rip is at the end of one of the batten slots. Maybe I can still use or fix it. The good news is I got the old plywood all chiseled out and the top side is clean. The foam flotation seems to be full of water I'm going to try and rig some ventilation through the access ring. I can get good air flow while the transom is out. I'll try to get some pictures of my progress if you want to post them on your sight. They might come in handy for other Banshee owners. Thanks for any help you can give me

To: Sw357pmg
From: Steve Bonham
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001
Subject: Re: Transom Repair

That was quick! Sounds like you are making great progress. I had concerns about the foam flotation on my Banshee too. I ended up wedging swimming pool noodles (the solid [no hole] type) into the side cells. Probably close to 3 per side. Seems to have helped enormously. On the sail question- I'm not sure of a source for new sails- I think that the Banshee Fleet One guys (Sacramento, CA) have a source there in California.

Your Rigging web page has been very helpful Thank you. I bought a Banshee last year and it has bin re-work quite alot when I received it. The one thing that I could not find was the serial number if it had one and a I didn't receive a original banshee sail with the proper id. The owner didn't know what type of boat it was when I got it. Thanks again and as I go through the rigging I will keep in touch.

You're welcome Gary. The serial number should be stamped on the transom of the boat. However it may have been reglassed or replaced by now. See the following link for details on translating your boat's number: http://boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.html I look forward to hearing more from you.

Steve, I just read your Banshee rigging page, very nicely done! Good, clear photos & descriptions. I have a '75 Banshee that I am getting ready to sail..I want to have some fun before I sell it on eBay. I live in central Oregon & sail my boats on the high lakes here.

My name is Jim and I am an owner of a Banshee Sailboat. When I was 13 my dad and I were going to take up sailing and we bought this little sailboat. Unfortunately, My dad became ill with cancer and we had to get rid of the boat. My cousin was a sailor and he took the boat off our hands, and to make a long story short, he called the other day to say that its been in the garage for the past 18-19 years. I am 32 now and have two children and I want to get this old boat on the water again. My Banshee needs work but I think I have that under control. Once I give some TLC to the hull and rigging I am ready to go but I need a sail. Over the years the sail disappeared some how or another. If you could offer any leads to a used sail it would be much appreciated and I can be on my way to a fun summer day. Thanks, oh and any other info is always appreciated

The only source I have heard of for new sails is a Sherron in California (last name Hart I think). The e-mail address for her is hartsail@jps.net.

Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001
To: Steve Bonham
From: Sherron Hart
Subject: Re: sherron?

yes its Hart Sail Design that makes those "GREAT" Banshee sails They are $545.00 that includes crash window, tell tales ,tapered battens, sock or halyard luff and a sausage bag..... Which Banshee do you have?

I can see you updated your directions! Thanks. School is over for a month, so I am going to try to find the lines I need and get my Banshee rigged and get out on the lake. Wish me luck. Thanks for your help. Look forward to the chat room.

One of two reasons. The Banshee boats (when new circa 1974-1981) shipped with numbered sails.

Hi Steve, I am looking at re-installing a hiking strap. In your photos their was something between the hiking strap and the D ring. What is that? And what is it used for? Is your boom stay on the out side of the sail? I have everything sketch out on paper of what I want to redo but it will not all get done year. I will try to send some pictures next week depending on how far along I am.

My strap goes around the daggerboard trunk/well and back to the double D ring which connects to the transom wall via a short strap. See attached illustration [cockpit01.jpg]. Daggerboard Trunk ....HIKING STRAP.....D ring...short strap...Transom wall Which photo you are speaking of? I'm not clear by what you mean by a "boom stay." Do you mean what I refer to as the book lift line? If so, yes it is long enough that once the sail is hoisted it flies in the wind or slumps against the sail with plenty of slack. It is about 9-12" longer than the distance from the top of the mast to the end of the boom once the sail is housted. It does not interfere with the battens -- if that is your concern.

The boom lift line is that I was referring to I don't have all the terminology down but I under stood the answer. I have another question about the dagger board and the piece of inner tube that you install to hold the dagger board in place about how thick is that rubber? My dagger board is the full length of the dagger board well it is not as skinny as yours I may have to make a new one.

Pretty thick. About as thick as 8-10 sheets of legal pad paper. Wow! You have a major daggerboard! See Bryan's webpage with all the stats for dimensions of Banshee parts. Info on daggerboard is at: http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/%7Ebentz/rules.html

Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001
To: Steve Bonham
From: Mike Salmon
Subject: Re: Banshee bailers

Sorry not to answer sooner but I was out of town. I use two mini-Elvstrom bailers, a few inches in front of the thwart, and about 4 inches to each side of the centerboard well. They work quite nicely at removing water. I've also seen boats with a single large suction bailer, placed on one side. Prob. either system will work for you. You have to have courage, and actually cut a hole (or two holes) into your hull, but the bailers come with stencils that tell you exactly how to shape the hole for the bailer, and the screws used to attach it. If done correctly, the bailer (when closed) is nearly flush with the outside surface of the hull. You can fill in any irregularities with aquarium sealer. The bailers are attached by flat-head bolts. Their heads should be flush with the hull. Use stainless nuts threaded with plastic on the inside of your hull, and cut the bolts to such a length that they do not protrude above the nut once attached. Let me know if any of this is unclear!

>I'm ready to give self bailers a go. I was out in "small craft advisory" conditions (I didn't know it at the time) a couple of months ago at Jekyll Island, Georgia. Thankfully I was on the windward side of the island. Waves around 2 feet... After almost an hour of exciting sailing a wave broke over the starboard side. Almost completely swamped I intentionally capsized. Then righted her. This continued for the next twenty minutes. Every five minutes or so a wave would come over the side or over(!) the bow. I was getting dog-tired!!! A Cessna was circling above me! It was getting harder and harder to right the boat as I was taking on water (via the mast well I think). I ended up sailing my almost full-cockpitted Banshee to the nearest landmass (quarter mile) and beaching it till conditions improved (next day!)...

>Can you provide more detail about this process? Do you have pictures or sketches of your setup?

>>3.Bailers. These are absolutely essential for keeping your boat dry when there are waves. A Banshee will ship a lot of water when beating through a chop, or when you lose control, heeling excessively but not capsizing. You can't continue sailing under those conditions while trying to bail the boat by hand.

>>I suggest you install two Elvstrom minibailers 3-4" to either side of the midline, just under the thwart or a few inches forward.

Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001
To: Steve Bonham
From: Mike Salmon
Subject: Re: Banshee bailers

Your attachment shows the bailers on the floor of the boat, not the sidewalls of the daggerboard well! In fact, they are in exactly the right place! When you install the bailers, make sure that the pivot faces toward the bow, and the opening (where the water gets sucked out) faces aft! Mike

>Excuse my ignorance about bailers- These things are then installed on the floor of the cockpit?? I was thinking that were were on the sidewalls of the daggerboard well.... See illustration attached [cockpit01.jpg] and let me know if this looks right.

Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001
To: Steve Bonham
From: Mike Salmon
Subject: Re: Banshee bailers

Try the following suppliers of dinghy parts. They both have web pages. Layline APS You're looking for "Elvstrom" style bailers, made of solid stainless! There are others on the market, but I don't know anything about them. If you elect to go for a double bailer system, you want the Elvstrom "mini" bailer that's about 3-4 " long. If you go for a single bailer, get the next size up (around 5" long). Mike

>Thanks for the help. I've been searching for a vendor online-- to no avail. Guess I'll try the local marina--unless you know of a source online?

>>Your attachment shows the bailers on the floor of the boat, not the sidewalls of the daggerboard well! In fact, they are in exactly the right place!

>>When you install the bailers, make sure that the pivot faces toward the bow, and the opening (where the water gets sucked out) faces aft!

To: Kyle Gross
From: Steve Bonham
Subject: RE: Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: :Steve's Mac:16:bailers.jpg:

Hey Kyle, I'm sending you an attachment [bailers.jpg] -- a drawing of what I THINK I'm supposed to do regarding installation of my bailers. Please give me some feedback? Particulalrly regarding orientation-- I'm assuming that the lever side is INSIDE the boat? But which end goes fore/aft? Where do gaskets go? Why do I have two? Thx much, Steve

From: Kyle Gross
To: sbonham
Subject: RE: elvstrom mini bailers?
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Bonham
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001
To: mail@apsltd.com
Subject: elvstrom mini bailers?

From: "BRYAN A. BENTZ"
To: Steve Bonham
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001
Subject: Re: Banshee Rules

That's great. I have it on the site, linked from the main page, in rules.html. I'm trying to do some other site things too. I didn't change the text formatting any (yet). Bryan

>With a new scanner and OCR software I was finally able to convert your gif images of the Banshee rule book to text (and images). I did a little editing where I found typos and added another large composite image.

>Please save the html file and images and edit as you see fit for public access on your Banshee site. Let me know when and where I can link to it.

From: "BRYAN A. BENTZ"
To: Steve Bonham
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001
Subject: Re: Banshee Rules

I also put a link on the page to your page, and took the time to look at it more thoroughly. The stuff on rigging is very well done; I liked the animation of the bowline - did you do this yourself, or find it?

Here are some pic's of my daggerboard there is enough of it that I will be able to cut the new one out of it. I also have to pieces of mahogany that I can make a new one. What would you suggest? I found a piece of poly prop at the home depot that I used as a seal for the daggerboard I hope that will work. I need to know the thickness of the banshee's daggerboard the one the I have is 7/8" thick my daggerboard for my sunfish is 3/4" thick. What is the detail at the top of the daggerboard? More pic's are in the making.

Gary, Go to: http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bentz/rules.html for a drawing of the rudder & daggerboard. It is about a third of the way down the page. You have quite a bit of material to work with! and it appears to be in excellent condition! Do you have a good trailing (sharp) edge on the existing daggerboard? It was hard to tell in your images. Both edges appear to be fairly blunt. If so you have some major re-shaping to do. I can take some shots of mine and maybe work up a sketch of thicknesses if you'd like.

From: "Gary Siegle"
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: Re: banshee daggerboard
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001

I went to that site for the basic outline but it doesn't have thickness or anything above the control line. There is a leading and a trailing edge both start about an 1-1/2" on the side and taper to about a 1/4"-3/8" radius on the edges. This edges extends from control line on one side to the control line on the other. The daggerboard that I have doesn't involve a lot of woodworking skills if indeed that is how it is suppose to be. Your pic's and sketch may be vary helpful if its not to much trouble? Thanks again Gary

My daughter has a 23 foot sailboat. and we had to do allot of work on it. now we are having a program putting the mast up. It is a 30 foot long mast. My husband try putting up the mast and the bolt that on the plate that connect the mast to pins pull out of the boat, so now my husband trying to fix that. But is there an easy way to get the mast up without bending the mast. I please help if you could give me any idea soon.

I have an 18' Hobie Catermaran with a 29' mast. It too is a bear to raise unless you use a winch-- which is what I do.

Date sent: Fri, 6 Jul 2001
To: "Gary Siegle"
From: Steve Bonham
Subject: Re: banshee daggerboard
Copies to: bentz

>>There is some interesting stuff there. It appears that moving the thickest portion of the board/wing back (near the midpoint (50% area)) may provide more lift.

I've gotten tied up working this weekend; I haven't had a chance to really read email. I have been in touch with Mr. (Dr.) Hanley before about airfoil design though - I strongly recommend his software. Bryan

From: "BRYAN A. BENTZ"
To: Steve Bonham
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001
Subject: Message board

I've attached yet another message board service to the Banshee web page; feel free to give it a try.

From: "BRYAN A. BENTZ"
To: Steve Bonham
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001
Subject: Re: Banshee Rules

Traditionally, in wooden vessels, the keelson is the wood above the keel, essentially part of the structure to bind the keel to the hull. It isn't clear to me what the term means in a non-keel fiberglass boat.

>Thanks for the nice comments. Nope, didn't do the bowline. It was one of the animations done on the website I pointed to- a scouting site in the UK.

>I have a question for you-- on the rules page... the diagram re: rudder and daggerboard dimensions include the term "keelson." I am unfamiliar with that term. I assume it refers to the line of the bottom of the hull at the dagerboard well or the transom wall? The measurements shown are areas BELOW the hull? Right?

Steve, Thanks for putting the rigging guide together. I sailed as a youngster and bought a Banshee a few years ago to sail with my daughters. I learned a few things from guide.

would you happen to know of any Banshees that are for sale or where i could buy a Banshee? Thanks

Nope-- sorry. I do not-- at this time. There are occassinally auctions on eBay and I've seen them listed on http://www.boats.com. I'll keep my eyes peeled. Steve

Hi Steve, Thank you so much for your awesome photo guide on how to rig a Banshee. I learned to rig and sail a Laser when I was 12 but really haven't sailed since. Never could have done it without your guide. I did have one question though. My daggarboard seems to small for its slot. Should it have some play? It seems like there are 3-4 extra inches in there. I'd have to messier for sure. I'm also very leery of standing on that thing when trying to flip the boat back over. I stand on it right next to the hull but it sure bends like it could break.

Hi Michael, Sorry about the delay in replying- I've been on a sailing vacation to lake Norman in NC. Glad that the rigging pages were useful to you. Most daggerboards are smaller than the well. That way you can move &/or tilt them forward or backward depending on your cockpit load and the wind/water conditions. When I am in my boat solo I find that most of the time I have the daggerbrd 2/3 down-- positioned all the way forward- and tilted from front to back. See my ascii "illustraion" below.

Hi again Steve, I wrote you about my daggerboard concerns. I've since measured it and found some problems. Its dimensions are 44.5"x10.5". Hope that is right for my boat. I also noticed a crack in the fiberglass around most of the dagger. You can see inside a bit too. I guess that needs replaced or repaired. Any thoughts. I am a furniture maker and could maybe reproduce one. I also want to replace the small bumper strip around the boat. Any suggestions you can make would be greatly appreciated. I'll send you a photo of her after she's all fixed up.

Just sent you a reply to the first message. Okay. So-- you do have a fiberglass (or fiberglass covered) daggerbrd now. Sounds like with your woodworking skills you could certainly do the second option-- make a new one. See the specs page I mentioned and the illustration I made for another Banshee owner. The bumper strip is the "rubrail" in sailing jargon. I need to replace mine too. The old black brittle one is broken all over the place on my boat. Thing is-- it is rivetted at about 6" intervals all along the deck/hull joint-- and I'm leery of removing the rivets. Let me look into this a little more and I'll get back to you. Look forward to the photos.

This is a question about the Banshee I am trying to remove the mast step insert and it doesn't want to pull out all rivits and bolts to deck hardware have been removed any hints?

It is possible that a previous owner(?) might have reinforced the mast well by adding epoxy or fiberglass via the access port. If they covered the washer/nut or bolt head you may be in for a little work.

I have a few questions about the Banshee, how much does the banshee weigh? how long is the banshee? Thanks

The hull weight (does not include mast, boom, sail, sheets) of the Banshee is 120+ pounds. The overall length is 13'. 6' of this is cockpit (it is quite roomy). Beam/width is 4'11". See more details at: brochure.html

Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001
From: "michael lane"
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: Re: daggerboard

Thanks so much for reply. I made a temporary fix to my dagger with a adhesive called gorilla glue, so I could take the boat on vacation. The glue is almost like a liquid spray-foam insulation. It seemed to work good.

Based on your message I think I may build my own new one out of Ironwood. It's a dense/heavy material mostly used for decking. Would a heavier board be ok. I thought it might make the craft a bit more stable. I won't be racing it. My wife is a windsurfer, so I bought this boat so we could go out together. We mostly sail at a small lake in the Denver area. We live in the mountains and there several reservoirs within an hour of us. Some are very cold though. Not exactly sailing Mecca. We get very swirl/gusty and variable winds. Needless to say my skills are improving rapidly. We are vacationing to the in-laws lake home this week in NW Wisconsin to sail and hope to hit Lake Maconihay {sp} on the way back. This fall we will go to south Padre for some ocean time.

I was unable to open your attachment [bailers.jpg] except as a tiny read-only figure, but perhaps the following will help.

To use the bailer, you left up the handle and push down. If you do this before you install the bailer, you'll see that the center portion pivots at one end; that end should face the bow. The opposite end extends downward and should have a flap over it. That flap will open to release water from inside your boat. The flap should face toward your stern.

I don't know why you were given two gaskets as only one is needed. You might contact your merchant for advise on this. [I did. Mike is right on. Use a thin or thick gasket or both to make the bottom of the bailer flush with the outside of the hull.] The gasket should fit between the bailer and the floor of your Banshee. The hold you cut in the hull needs only to be large enough for the center portion of the bailer so it can pivot downward. You'll also be drilling some small holes on each side of this cut for the bolts that attach the bailer to the hull. Be sure to use a countersink to finish those holes, so that the flathead bolts are flush with the hull bottom.

Hope you had a good week of sailing. I had a chance to go sailing Sunday in a light wind. I notice that I have to make a new daggerboard for my boat. It was difficult to turn a tight radius, and I believe that the extra wide daggerboard has a lot to do with that. When the wind strong it had no problem turning tight,but if there where anything less it could not do it. I e-mail Abbott boats and they have one daggerboard left for approx. 119.00 not worth that much to me I am going to make a new one. I build a solid 3D model of the daggerboard with the dimensions that I recieved from you. Looks like the convalutted wing of an aircraft. I have a good idea how I am going to build it and I will document the progress

Thanks, we did have some good days. 5 of the 7 we sailed. Mostly light to moderate winds. Only able to windsurf one day. :-( BUT the kids had a blast. We were in a protected cove and on the moderate days they could really get some good soloing practice. See my new "capsize recovery" animation for a peek Misc/right.gif.

I just realized that I forgot to send the photo of my dagger board. Here it is [dag_x-sect.jpg]. I did not truely realize how FLAT my board is until I took this photo. It is not airfoil quality! Still, it works like a charm. I can pull some tight little turns in light winds. Looking forward to hearing and seeing more about your progress.

From a earlier corrospondance I questioned about removing the Mast step for repair. You said possibly a earlier repair was made and the Step and socket. That was the fact both were glued together making it impossible to remove one without the other. I ended up completely removing the socket that is glassed to the bottom of the boat leaving the doubler in place. I was planing on repairing the step then making a wooden socket and glassing it into the bottom. Since a repair was made prior to this I am unsure of the original configuration was the step fixed to the socket with the bolt that aligns the mast? Any comments?

All I know for sure is what I have in my Banshee. I have a mostly unthreaded 5/8" bolt (the "step pin") held in place in the bottom of the mast well by large fenderwashers, a lock washer and a nut. I've been told by another Banshee owner that their step pin was surrounded by a stainless steel jacket. Sounds like a better design to me as the 5/8" bolt was smaller than the notch in the mast base. I'm CCing this reply to Skip Stanyan of California whom was formerly GM for Marine Plastics-- the folks who made the Banshee. Maybe he can provide more detail on the original mast step design.

From: Skip Staynan
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001
Subject: Re: mast step
To: sbonham
CC: doug montgomery

Just returned from some great sailing at Woodward Lake, near Oakdale, CA. Really great sailing there if you have't tried it yet. They even have a race coarse set up for Regattas.

Regarding your problem with the mast step, I will create a drawing showing a cross section of the mast step and the way it should all go together. I also just finished rebuilding the transom of Banshee # 1 (I have two of them now) and as soon as the pictures are back from lab and I scan them etc I will publish the transom rebuild process on the Banshee website as well as the mast step drawing I will create.

Hope everyone in Folsom Fleet One is enjoyiong the summer. I will have both boats down on the lake soon for some sailing on Folsom. It will be a first time for me. :)

Hello there from sunny Alaska (rainy and windy today). Well we are the proud new owners of a Banshee we purchased at a garage sale. The bad news of the purchase is all we got was the hull. We are looking for after market or used parts or all the running gear. Any help would be appreciated as we want to join the Big Lake Yahct Club.

Brrrrr. *Still* sounds cold! Congratulations on your "new addition." I hope that you'll be able to find (or fabricate) all the pieces that you need.

My Banshee rigging guide provides line lengths for most of the rigging. If you decide to build your own mast and boom and can get you some photos and measurements. Let me know. Let me know how it goes?--

The boat was I think a 1976 one, according to the registration...I'll have to unfurl the sail and see if there are any marks. It's not a new sail, in fact, it needs a patch on the luff side. In fact the seam by the tack grommet is a little torn, about 1/2 inch. Should I patch it? There are no marks on the sail from previous numbers...but I understand that the numbers are only if I am racing and I don't believe I will be doing any racing for a while.

The other things I have discovered are that I have no topmast block. There is only a clip where the block would go.

Also I have no clews outhaul shackle on the boom. No, actually, I don't know where to find that. Is it a separate shackle that I need to put on the outhaul? I'm still having trouble figuring all this out. But your explanation is definitely easier to understand than before. At least I now have my Banshee in the water. Apparently, Lazer was more aggressive, and took away a lot of business, so many people have Lazers that would have had Banshees?

So, can you tell me what I need for the boom...also, I know I need a boom vang and you mentioned what you got, but I don't know what size to get, there are a number of shackles, in the catalogue. Mark suggested I get a Harken clew hook for my outhaul. So I did, also I had no block on my topmast, so I got a block, but I'm not sure how I will get it on as it is not one of the side opening ones. Any suggestions.? I am going to go to the races this Wed. night at Folsom Lake and see how some of them rig their banshees.

--------------------
To: Fran Eichler
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001
Subject: Re: Rigging

Keep the faith girl! The guys at Folsom Lake will certainly be able to help. Take your boat and your new hardware and go early. Maybe you CAN sail it Wednesday!

From: "Cliff Billett"
To: sbonham
Subject: Thanks for documenting all your advice - a new question
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001

I really enjoyed your site and the results of all your efforts. Thank you very much for sharing it and answering so many questions over the years. I didn't see anyone ask this one: My friend's newly acquired Banshee has received minor, but deep gouging on the bow from boat trailer flex and bow rubbing on trailer nose piece. As I scraped a bit in the gouge, I was surprised to find the material quite dry and flakey. The boat was stored outside in the East Bay near San Francisco for about 10 years without being used.

1. Do you know approximate thickness of the hull, particularly at the leading edge of the bow. Was core material used?

2. We'll fill and glass it, any thoughts you have would be appreciated. (We'll be sure to check the transom carefully also)

3. Another question if I may: I noted that foam broke loose within the cavity under the gunwale on the ride home. Do you know if original boats had sprayed in foam? It sounds like many owners have been inserting material and perhaps a bit of removal of loose material makes sense before doing this. I'm delivering the Banshee to the Portland, OR area this weekend where it will get some time on the Columbia River. As an International 110 sailer on the East Coast way back, I'm looking forward to sailing this one. If others are finding sail sources a challenge, I'd be happy to check with the sail maker here who made this boat's sails about sharing his name. The former boat owner, who knows the sailmaker well, indicated that he would be happy to make additional sails anytime. Please let me know if you'd like this info for your site. Thanks again for your discussion page and links.

To: "Cliff Billett"
From: sbonham
Subject: Re: Thanks for documenting all your advice - a new question
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001

Good questions: my thoughts... Skip Stanyan (former GM for Marine Plastics that built the Banshee) would probably know about the hull construction/design. I'm CCing this to him. He may have more info.

I can only speak from experience with my boat-- My hull seems to have slightly different thicknessess depending upon the location examined. The central area in the cockpit floor seems most thin -- I'm estimating 1/8" - 3/16". The daggerboard and bow ridge area do seem to be little thicker-- 1/4" to 5/16" I'd say. This makes sense, doesn't it? These are the areas where greatest stresses are placed when sailing. I'm clueless about the "flaking." Doesn't sound good tho. Sounds like pretty severe ultraviolet light damage combined with a lot of flexing.

On the flotation question; This I do know! Yes, the original boats did have foam flotation attached to the interior/top wall of each side air cell. There seems to be a thin Saranwrap-like membrane enclosing it-- and this membrane is disintegrating (on my boat anyway). My boat is 27 years old now and I've left this original stuff in but also added several solid "swimming pool noodles" (3 or 4 per side and 4or 5 more inside the bow)-- a lot can be placed via the inspection port-- although I stuff 6 or 8 in when I replaced my transom a while back. This has helped tremendously. She does now stay "high and dry" when capsized. Before I'd ship 30 gallons or so (a bathtub full) when righting the boat after a spill. Everytime following a sail I find fragments of the original flotation foam spilling from the air cells when I drain the boat on the trailer. I now regret NOT removing the foam when I replaced my transom.

On the sail guy-- That would be great Cliff. Have a great sail-- and DO add those noodles prior to your trip! Sailing a swamped Banshee is nothing close to fun.

From: DIALSF
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001
Subject: Re: Thanks for documenting all your advice - a new question
To: sbonham & Cliff Billett

I just repaired Banshee # 2 I bought in Santa Maria a few months ago and it is normal for material to be somewhat flaky after so many years. When we originally produced the Banshees we made great effort not to make the lay-up adequate for strength but not to wet as we were considering the ultimate weight of the boat. The Lay-up in the bow is always more substantial because of overlapping of material and the obvious physical punishment it is subjected to! I sanded the cavity and the area of gelcoat immediately around it and used reinforcing 11/2oz mat and cloth to build it back up to surface spec and then sanded it to original contour. I then went over it with bondo for a final finish layer and wet sanded it to a smooth finish. I then repainted with gelcoat, wet sanded with 400 grit and then machine compounded it with McQuires Mirror Glaze machine compound until blended in with hull gelcoat finish. It came out very nice! I am taking in the pictures today and as soon as finished and scanned I will send to Banshee web Admin for publishing.

Regarding floatation. We used to pour the foam onto the side flotation areas, not spray it. the film over the top of the foam is a naturally occurring film that manifests after the foam has cured, if that helps you at all.

I just installed an inexpensive ($15.00 at Target) 12 Volt 600 GPH bilge pump in my # 1 Banshee. I put a rubberized cigarette lighter outlet in my bulkhead above the access port and I have a 12 V motorcycle battery connected to that (secured inside under deck). I then hook up the pump to that (has a lighter plug connected to pump) and have a switch under the daggerboard box/top to turn on and off. The 3/4 inch, flexible pump outlet hose, goes up the top of my hiking strap (use snap ties to fasten) and out through the transom via a thru-hull fitting. I am only trying out at this time, but it looks like it will work quite well when needed. I occasionally get knocked down or take in water when coming about sometimes and this will help along with using my Elvstrom bailer in the bottom of hull. Getting older (57) and tired of bailing by hand lol:)))

I will get back to you with rest of info when available and thanks for your interest in "fixes for the Banshee".

PS I recently had to find new battons for my sail and found a company near Jack London Square in Oakland, named Pinnapple Sails, very helpful. You might check with them and see if they would make a new sail and at what price. I am going over there to replace a batton that jumped out of the sail pocket last weekend and will be happy to check for you as well. I will take my sail over for them to look at and then forward their response to you all.
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Cliff Billett"
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: Banshee Sailmaker Contact
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001

The Banshee sailmaker I know of is the same as Skip Stanyan said he found
very helpful on the phone recently. My friends have sailed with and known
Kame Richards, who runs Pineapple, for years. He has an original Banshee
pattern and would be happy to assist Banshee owners with sails. Kame made
the racing sail for the Banshee I've been working on for a friend. Contact
information is as follows:

Cliff Billett
------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001
From: dennis widman
To: sbonham
Subject: Just beginning

I just want to thank you for the very helpful site. I have always been
interested in sailing, but never had the time until now. I am looking to
buy a 13' to 16' sailboat and get started for next season. Your site has
been very helpful by showing what needs to be done when rigging a
sailboat.

Thanks again,
Dennis Widman
------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Dennis,

You're quite welcome-- glad you found it helpful. Now... you just have to figure out which boat to buy!

Be careful of the "Hobiecat trap." We are a family of five (wife & 3 kids; ages 12, 10 and 8). A year ago we bought a BIG Hobie (18'). It absolutely flys. It is much faster than my Banshee. The trouble is this size cat requires two to sail her in anything more than light winds... and even then capsizes can happen in an instant-- and it takes 265 pounds to right her a LOT MORE if she turtles and they do that FAST too. Look carefully and be sure to ask for a "sea trial" (test drive).

Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Randy"
To: <sbonham>
Subject: web page
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001

Dear Sir, Please sympathize with me. There is a Banshee in my back yard and it has been there for three years. I really feel uncomfortable on the computer, I guess I'm what is considered computer illiterate. The reason I am writing you is that I really need your Three part explanation on rigging the Banshee, yet I don't have a color printer and on my machine your pages print only half (down the center) at a time. For three years I've been frustrated with these hindrances. Is there anyway you could send a copy to me at: [address ommitted]. I know that this is asking allot, but you seem to be the best hope I've got to get this boat in the water. No one around me sails anything but sailboards, and I feel afraid to ask for help. I want to do this by myself, despite my wife, despite my kids, despite everything. I did get it registered for the next four years so take your time.

Thanks for any help. Randy
------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay Randy,

I'll work on getting you a copy today.
Find a Acrobat PDF version of rigging guide at: RigBanshee.pdf

Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Cliff Billett"
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: thanks again
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001

I'm doing trailer wheel bearings for the 650 mile trip tomorrow. It hadn't
been moved in years.

Cliff
------------------------------------------------------------------
To:"Cliff Billett"
From: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: Re: thanks again
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001

Last night I began installation of my autobailers and a took a photo of interest to you. The hull at the daggerboard area is pretty thick slightly over 1/4 inch.

See attached file [hull_thick.jpg]. Seemed to be three layers of fiberglass mat in this area. Note the bands of color in the x-section cutout. Normally I understand that when fiberglass is "laid up" is it usually laid in alternating layers of mat (thick- looks like fiberboard) & cloth (thin - looks woven). Thought you'd be interested.

Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Lugger
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 21:08:08 EDT
Subject: Banshee Page
To: sbonham

It's good to see there is an active fleet. I was afraid the Banshee had gone
the way of the dodo. I had one for a few years starting in the early 80's.
My family grew, and I had to get a bigger boat, but I certainly didn't love
it as much.

Nearly twenty years later, I wonder if I could still step that heavy mast. I
suppose strength comes back with practice.

Pat
Mountlake Terrace, WA
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sw357
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001
Subject: Mast Socket
To: sbonham

Hi Steve
Tom again. Quick question. How loose is the mast in the mast socket? I have
a piece of neoprene tubing for a ring but things seem to be very sloppy.

Thanks
Tom Peloquin
------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Tom,

Not very loose when you have the right "donut." Don't risk a jeryrig here. I did too initially (with two thick tube socks wrapped about the mast). It's not worth all the bother-- not to mention the risk of cracking for mast well. You can buy a replacement mast well gasket from www.abbottboats.com for about $10.

------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Steven M Kornblau, M.D."
To: <sbonham>
Subject: Banshee #875
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001

My wife, decided we should learn to sail and picked up a used boat at a
church sale for $100 (they wanted $350 with the trailer but as we live on
the water we don't need one). It was every bit a $100 boat! $700 later &
I've nearly finished a major overhaul: repaired two rough patches of prior
hull damage, patched all dings, primed and painted the deck and hull, sanded
the wood transom, centerboard, rudder, tiller, side rails, to the base wood
then epoxy resin coated them, then polyurethane varnish all the pieces, Had
new teak thwack and centerboard holder pieces made, Got all new Harken
hardware, replaced all the access hatches, new lines etc, etc, etc.

I kept asking all the sailboat shops what brand it was based on the red and
blue bird logo but no one knew. Finally today I found a book with sail logos
and learned it was a Banshee. I found your website and your section on
rigging is a godsend.

1) There is no serial number on the WOOD (Marine Ply with a mahogany? outer
layer) transom. From reading some of you old e-mails I get the feeling that
perhaps the transom is not OEM. Any other way to tell what year it is? The
number on the sail is 875. All attempts to access the hull id pages from
your site come up blank for some reason.

2) On the bottom of the boat about four inches aft of the centerboard well,
on the port side, there is a stainless steel item about 3x6 inches. It goes
through the hull. There is some sort of wire lever on the top side. It
sounds like this may be a self bailer? IF so how do these work. If so I have
a feeling I need to remove the paint from the hull side of it!

3)My sail does not have a window on it. When were those added? or is it a
replacement sail?

4) Any suggestions for what to clean the sails with? There seem to be some
orange stains, rust? mold? on them.

5. My boat has a traveler on it. Any problems with having one? [traveler on a Banshee]

6) the foam flotation has become detached from the hull and could bounce
around. Any suggestions? Should it be glued down? If so with what? Should I
just jam a noodle into the spaces?

7) Know of any banshee organizations in Texas? No other Texans were listed
on the web site.

Thanks for any guidance you can provide.
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Steve,

Man! Sounds like you got one of the early Banshees. Circa 1974 or 75, I believe... and it sounds like this one had quite a skipper at one time (the bailer and traveler are NOT standard items. Also, sounds like you have paid the $350 AND A LOT MORE in TLC already. It'll be worth it. You and your wife will love your Banshee.

I can provide some answers but I'm CCing this to a few guys (Mike Salmon, Skip Stanyan, Bryan Bentz) who may have additional (& better!) info.

Re: Question #1 (no HIN info on transom)
Your transom has been replaced or the HIN info has been covered by additional fiberglass layers. My sail number was 2577 and it was made in October, 1976. The sail numbers do correspond to the manufacture sequence.

Re: #2 (rectangular metal thing in cockpit floor next to daggerboard well) [Animation showing how to install a auto bailer]
You have a self bailer installed. Probably an Elvstrom mini bailer. I've just installed one (Anderson bailer) on my boat. As I understand it you simply flip the lever while underway (you may need to press downward on yours too) and the water inside the cockpit is sucked out by the vacumm generated by forward progress. Of course it sounds like you may have to grind a bit to get thru to it to test it. Careful-- If it has been GLASSED over I'll bet it was leaking... and you may decide not to bother replacing the gasket.

Re: #3 (sail windowesss)
Not a replacement-- I don't think, not with the Banshee logo-- Skip Stanyan may know this one.

Re: #4 (cleaning sails)
I use some stuff called StarBrite that I bought at a West Marine store. It removed most of the rust stains I had on mine. Got ride of all the dirt. It's a good product. You can get most of their stuff online at http://www.westmarine.com.

Re: #5 (traveller)
No problems with a traveller- It will complicate learning sailing a little tho. Just lock it down in a centered position initially. I've not used one so I personally can't speak more about how to best take advantage of it. I'm assuming that running, broad reaching, and beating will be easier to do...

#6... (loose flotation material)
Yeah. I'd wedge several noodles into your side cells to hold the existing stuff in place. Careful on gluing it- Fiberglass resin might well melt it for instance.

#7...
Nope. I don't know of any Banshee owners in Texas. But I bet they are out there. You might make some calls to the local sailing organizations and inquire about their sub 15' classes. Which of the lakes are you going to sail on in Texas?

------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Lugger
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001
Subject: Re: Banshee Page
To: sbonham

I'm mostly kayaking in calm waters with my wife, Janet. I also rent canoes
and rowing boats several times a year. It's all fun. We see bald eagles
(yep, right here in the big city), herons, various coots, ducks, geese,
diving birds, swallows, and jumping fish. Haven't seen any turtles yet this
year, but I think we will before we're done. There are also beaver houses
and other signs of their work, but you almost never see one. We have otters
locally, too. I've seen several but never from the kayak.

Sadly, I haven't sailed in several years. I think the only hope is to build
a little 12 to 14 footer one of these summers. I am a little bit daunted by
the task and may never actually get it done. I really do love to sail,
though, so may get back into it one way or another. My wife and son both
perfer to paddle.

It looks like you are starting your own little sailors early. Good luck and
Have Fun!

From: "Steven M. Kornblau, MD"
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: More on Banshee #875
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001

Thanks for replying. I used your rigging instructions to make one final list
of necessary parts which I hope to pick up today. Then maybe we will launch
on Tuesday evening. I'm trying to squeeze it in before I go on a trip.

We live on the water near the Johnson Space Center & will be sailing on
Clear Lake or Galveston Bay.

Given the presumed age I would have to guess that the prior owner was likely
someone associated with the early space program. Could have been an
engineer, which would explain the extra hardware (traveler, self bailer,
etc). I suppose the kids grew up and the boat fell into disuse.

I think someone did a repair job on it at one point as the transom seems to
have been replaced. Based on what colors I saw while preparing it for
painting it seems that the top had also been painted a teal green over the
original sky blue. Some of the access hatches were original (front of
cockpit and one on each side, that means that the plastic was so old that it
crumbled when you touched it. Other access hatches (top in front of the mast
& two small 4 inch side hatches) were new, and from the photos in the
original sales brochure appear to have been added later.

The self bailer is unpainted in the cockpit and was unpainted until two
weeks ago on the hull side. It should be pretty simple to remove that and
see if it functions. How large is the opening when it's in the open
position?

After reviewing your rigging photos there is still one modification that I
cannot figure out. At the base of the mast there are two small blocks, one
on each side (where you show your halyard block & the cleat opposite it in
picture 15). When I got the boat there was a line running from a cleat (just
like the cleat in picture 15) positioned on the side (about where you have
two clam cleats on doozie (pics 1 &15 & 18) to the block at the base of the
mast up to another pair of blocks, each attached to one end of an inverted U
shaped piece of metal (about 3-4 inches long & 1.5-2 inches wide) and then
down to the block on the other side of the mast and finally on to another
cleat opposite the first. This line was about 14 ft long. I did not get a
halyard or Cunningham line with the boat. I've wondered if the inverted U
shaped piece could have gone through one of the metal holes in the base of
the sail to serve as the downhaul? Of if maybe the halyard and Cunningham
were cleated down along the side of the boat, instead of being at the base
of the mast? I cant see what the advantage of that would be. Any ideas what
this was for? What do you use the side cleats for on the doozie?

I couldn't help notice that most of the e-mail addresses are "edu" endings.
Is that a prerequisite for owning a banshee, or just a strange coincidence?
I'm a hematologist oncologist specializing in Leukemia and marrow
transplantation. What is the academic affiliation of the other edu people?

From: <sbonham>
To: "Steven M Kornblau, M.D."
Subject: Re: Banshee Page
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001

Careful buddy, maybe that metal thing in your cockpit is a micro solid rocket booster! ;-)

The bailer opening size-- I can't say for sure. Havn't had a chance to test mine yet. I just did the install last week. At this point mine doesn't see to open at all-- even with the lever up. :-( I'm hopeful that the small slit at the aft end is "engaged" once the lever is up and that I will lose water. If yours does OPEN wider let me know, okay?

Hmmmm! The second question about the mysterious line and cleating system from gunwale to mast to opposite gunwale is quite intriguing! Sounds like it could be:
1. an ingenious cunningham system (cool idea)
2. a J-C strap (see Mike Salmons rigging info
<http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bentz/rigging.html>
for his description of this thing).
Or
3. maybe the previous owner did something I've been thinking
about-- found a way to attach control lines for jib sail???

I've never seen anyone use such as system for a downhaul or cunningham-- but it does sound workable! Certainly easier to adjust the tension from the cockpit with that set-up. See my sketch [cunning?.jpg] of such in action-- does this look accurate?

Sounds like a sure way to pull cleats out of the gunwales if it was for the vang. I've never been able to find any use for the gunwale clam cleats- except for securing the boat dockside-- but I may try this system for the cunningham!

On the edu ending-- ".edu" indicates the user is from an educational institution. Bryan is at MIT, Mike at Florida Atlantic Univ. and I'm at Georgia Southern Univ.

Checked on the back of my original Banshee brochure (which I rec'd with my purchase in 1990). My Banshee orginally came from "Bugs and Bikes" in Lubbock, Texas. If there was a dealer out there, there must be more Banshees!

Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Steven M. Kornblau, MD"
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: RE: Banshee #875
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001

Thanks for the info. We rigged it in the driveway yesterday (see attached
pictures). If I can cut out early enough & convince my boss, who is an avid
sailor to join me & teach me what to do, I might get it in the water today.
I've also attached an out of focus shot of the auto bailer. Like yours, I
could not get it to open manually. I'll LYK how it goes.
Steve

She looks great Steve. Looks like you need to make or buy some battens, eh? But she'll do okay for the time being without them. Yep. That is a bailer. Looks just like mine. Glad to hear someone else cannot "open" it. I didn't dare use a hammer on it! ;-)

Look for your Banshee (and details if you'd like to add some thoughts) on my redesigned (stayed up late last night!) Banshee website.

Your rubrail looks great- Is that original stuff? That is my next project. Latching it down to the trailer has taken it's toll over the years and I've gotten several missing pieces.

I think the sail you have is an early sail that was manufactured prior to windows being utilized. You can always have a sailmaker install a window in your sail if it is in good enough condition to warrant that. I have'nt had a chance to go across to the east bay for my replacement battens at Pinnapple Sails but I promise I will get price and availability of a replacement sail from them and let you know. My"guestimation" is it would probably cost in excess of $ 800.00 though. There battens are certainly cheap though. I bought 2- 36" Battens for $15.00, about half of what West Marine charges. I just purchased another Banshee in Southern California as I got an almost new condition sail out of the deal and $800.00 worth of like new harkin hardware spars daggerboard, kickup rudder, all like new.... for $500.00 inc trailer and new registration.

I now have two very nice Banshee's fully rigged and sailing. I have attached a picture of them. It also sounds like your complete transom was replaced at some time in the past. It's unfortunate when people think they have to remove the entire transom vs taking out the rotted wood down to the glass/gelcoat substrate and then laminating the new wood against that. The number of your sail would sure indicate your Banshee was built by Marine Plastics in San Francisco or by a subcontractor in Marysville, CA. I have my pictures back from the work I did on my Banshee and will post on web soon.

From: UserAngel
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001
Subject: Boom to Mast connection.
To: sbonham

Hi My name is Chris Rosenkrans and I have a Banshee that I have been
fixing up off and on for the last year. One of my last tasks is to fix how
the gooseneck fitting fits into the boom. On your instructions on how to rig
the Banshee Part II (4th PIC from the top) Their is a great view of the boom
end that attaches to the mast. Could you give me a quick run down on what
you did to make that stainless steel pin stay in the boom? Any insight that
you could give would be very helpful.

Now for the fun part, I get to tell you about my boat. I was living in
Colorado Springs from 1998 - 2000. My buddy was looking in the paper and saw
a sailboat for sale. I went to check it out. The boat was in rough shape it
had not been registered since 91. The boat was sitting up against the house
and covered in dirt. There were two large fiber patches on the hull (A very
poor job was done), and someone just splattered fiber glass resin all over
the hull. But at $150 with a trailer I felt I could bring this tired ship
back to life.

A quick side note: I have built three remote control sailboats and felt it
was time to build a people size boat.

I brought the boat home and quickly got to work. All the parts were there
and the sail seemed like it was in OK shape. I put the boat in the garage and
started sanding on the hull to get that nasty fiber resin off the boat and
see if there were any holes that I would have to patch. A month later I was
done sanding and the hull looked great. All I did was put o few coats of a
resin called "glove-it" to seal any holes and scratches and to provide
strenght and then I painted the hull a nice bright red.
Next I worked on the deck and painted it white using the same process that
I used on the hull. I finished the boat a week before I moved to Phoenix for
school. On the way down my trailer lost a tire and the hull sustained a
little damage, but nothing I can't fix. Needless to say it is still in
Colorado at my in-laws house. I plan on bringing it down to Phoenix in the
near future, doing the neccessary repairs and then sailing it on the water
for the first time.

This is my boat story in a nutshell. Thanks for your time and any
information that you could provide. My e-mail address is
[deleted] . Feel free to contact me at any time.

Neat story. Sounds like you've earned a good boat. Interestingly, we have developed an interest in the radio controled boats after sailing our Banshee. Maybe we'll build one of those soon and I'll be e-mailing you for advice!

Okay-- your boom question. I'm not sure which "pin" you are speaking off... so I'm putting a little diagram [goose_detail.jpg] together that will hopefully be worth a million words. If it doesn't do the trick feel free to ask for more clarification.

Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001
From: "Burton Revell"
To: sbonham
Subject: Banshee Griffon

Hi Steve, I'm looking for a lightweight Banshee, the Griffon (about 15 made) . Any leads would be appreciated. Barnacle Burt
------------------------------------------------------------------

You've got your work cut out for you. Finding a Griffon may take a while. Sorry. I don't know if a Griffon has a differnet sail insignia. Since only 15 where made I doubt that they are different.

I don't believe that you can remove the transom to make it self draining--- not without a major modification anyway. The boats designed for this have a cockpit floor that is higher that the waterline. The Banshee and Griffon cockpits both are below water.

I assume that you could turn your boat into a self bailer by removing the transom and bonding a 2" layer of closed cell foam to the floor- and then reglassing - SUBSTANTIALLY. However, I've know heard of anyone doing this as yet- Know too that your boat would not meet class rules with this modification.

> Hi Steve, I wrote earlier asking about a Griffon. Can you identify a Banshee (Griffon variety) by the sail number or would it be listed as a Griffon? Also, has anyone removed the transom >from a Banshee to make it self draining like some of the Flying Juniors? Do you know anyone with a Griffon I could talk to?

------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001
From: "Burt"
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: Re: Banshee, Griffon

Hi Steve, I think I have located a Gryphon but the owner is asking $2200.
Do you think it worth the price difference when another guy is asking $550
for his Banshee. Both with trailers. Do you think think the Gryphon could
be cartopped easily? Would the hull shape difference be good or bad?
Thanks, Burt
------------------------------------------------------------------
Burt,

$2200! Zikes! That does seem high- but what kind of shape is it in?
I paid $500 for my Banshee (and trailer) 10 years ago. It needed work: cracks in hull; weak spots in transom. Lines needed replacing and such. A like-new Griffon might be worth 2200! If I could buy a NEW Banshee-- I'd pay 2k!

The hull weight I understand is appox. 20 pounds lighter? Definitley "car toppable."

I'm not sure what your hull shape difference question is in regard to-- I'm not that familiar with the Griffon. I just know it has the composite/kevlar hull.

Exceptional step-by-step help on rigging the Banshee! Photos, clear
instructions, very professional. What a service to the uninitiated.

I just inherited my boat from a friend who moved and wasn't finding time to
use it. I set it up once by the seat of my pants in the front yard on the
trailer and did pretty well, but your tips and details will help immensely.
The greatest confusion was from a halyard only about 18' long. I had to
step the mast with the sail hoisted. It was a solo Iwo Jima effort: scary
and difficult. At water level, this should be much easier.

I will try to invest in the boom vang soon. I figured out what a fiddle
block is from the illustration, but I have a couple of questions: 1) does
it matter where I put the double block on the boom? and, 2) what is a
"thimble"?

Linda Johnson Flowerday
Lincoln High School
------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Linda,

Enjoyed your Iwo Jima story. I can imagine it! Nothing more fustrating than a wiggly boat or a donut that wants to swim when stepping the Banshee mast!

If you get in a fix like that again try this-- BUT NOT, repeat NOT- *NOT!!!* in deep water (where you may lose your mast base if your boat turns turtle.

1. Step only the base of the mast
2. Grab your mast and tip your boat on it's side- it will stay there once the mast touches ground.
3. Slip your mainsail onto the mast base
4. mate top mast with mast base (make sure that top mast block is aft)
5. run halyard from sail head to topmast block
6. hang onto the (to be cleated) end of your halyard while you push your mast verticle again to right the boat-- the sail will be hoisted if you still have that short line.

The thimble question... my mistake! It is called a becket. See new vang animatation for more on using a simple vang. It's at:

From: "Steven M Kornblau, M.D."
To: "Steve Bonham"
Subject: RE: Banshee #875
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001

Just got back from our trip to LA. I bought the missing batten (actually had
3 of the 4) today (along with some chain to lock it to our dock, wax, rubber
plugs, gloves,...ka ching, ka ching, ka ching goes the cash register) & I've
been reading sailing for dummies. I need to set a date to take it out ASAP
with one of my friends with sailing experience that is willing to teach me
how to go out and more importantly how to get back home!

As far as I know the rub rails are original. You can't see the other
"gorgeous" wood in the picture I sent. I sanded down all of the wood till
all of the old finish was removed then applied ~3 coats of epoxy resin
followed by 2-3 coats of UV protecting polyurethane (Interlux goldspar). It
was a ton of work & I made some mistakes with the epoxy that required
resanding and recoating, but I think it was worth it in the end.

I emailed Abbott about the mast gasket & a replacement gooseneck attachment
(mine is useable but tweaked) but have not heard back from them. Any
suggestions.

From: "Steve Bonham"
To: "Steven M Kornblau, M.D."
Subject: RE: Banshee #875
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001

The Dummies book is a favorite- another great item (and a quick read) if you can find it is the Sail Magazine's "Best Little Learn to Sail Book Ever" by Brad Dellenbaugh. He also wrote a Sports Illustrated "Guide to Small Boat Sailing" that was good but is probably out of print. If you'd like a photocopy or PDF of the Sail Mag thing let me know.

Sounds like you did a great job on your daggerboard(?)/daggerboard well trim. I should do that too. Mine looks like hell. I slap some tung oil on it once a season...

On the Abbott boats Q-- that surprises me. Alona is usually great about responding to any query I've sent. Try to e-mail her directy at:
<abbott@ebtech.net>
Phone numbers are below:
Abbott Boats Inc.
1458 London Road
Sarnia, Ontario
N7S 1P7
Canada
Pho: (519) 542 - 2771
Fax: (519) 542 - 2324

Breezes,
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001
From: Ken Flowerday
Subject: Re: banshee tips
To: Steve Bonham

This is Ken. Somehow I got my wife's name at the bottom of my email. I
got my Banshee out yesterday--almost no wind--perfect for a maiden voyage.
All went well. I discovered I have a simple vang already! I still don't
know what a thimble or a becket is. [see a becket.jpg here] The friend that I got the boat from
stopped by and told me everytime he used the boat, he simply clipped the
top of the sail to the top of the mail and "hoisted" the sail as he stepped
the mast. I used a halyard...much preferred this approach.

I live in Lincoln, Nebraska. We have several lakes nearby, all big enough,
but pretty muddy in this part of the state. Plenty of wind. Yesterday was
an anomoly. Out west we have some nice sand-bottom lakes. We'll see.

Ken D. Flowerday
Lincoln East High English Dept.
Lincoln East High Gifted Facilitator
Lincoln, NE
------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Ken,

I thought maybe it would be Lincoln, Neb. I coached a men's college gymnastics team at the U of Georgia back in the 80s. Made a couple of trips to NCAA championships in Lincoln- UN was a powerhouse back then- with Jim Hartung, Scott Johnson, and Phil Cahoy. It WAS always windy there- so you are in a great place for Banshee owners.

Yeah- you do have a simple vang- (standard issue with the Banshee) but it is not real powerful. One block on the boom and one on the mast-- right? The one on the mast has a small extension that you could attach a line to - that is the "becket"- the thimble thing was an error- I need to go back and correct that.

Sounds like you are in for some fun. I would replace the simple vang with a "double-double" system as described in my rigging guide-- but you might try using what you have first. If running downwind results in an wildly flapping boom you may decide to upgrade.

Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------
To: sbonham
From: Marijn -Priv
Subject: Europe's only Banshee?
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001

Steve, finally found your website. It's great. Got (almost) all the information I was
looking for. I think my Banshee will be needing a a lott of fixing this winter. Ofcourse,
all the known problems, as mentioned on this site, so I've printed all your comments
and made me a projectplan, with a shopping list included. Thanks for all that.

The story of my Banshee ('cause every B. seems te have one) might be interesting:
my sailing area are the lakes of Loosdrecht. Never heard of them?
That's not strange: you can find them in The Netherlands, Europe. I just might be
the only Banshee-owner in Europe! (or does anyone know better?). My Banshee
was bought by my uncle, Chris van Heeswijk, in Lubbock Texas, I think in the late
70's or the early '80. He lived there for about a decade, because of his job at Texas
Instruments. Later he moved back to Europe (Munich, Germany) and decided to take
the boat with him. I guess he was a Banshee freak, like many of you guys...(or had to
fill up his container).

Unfortunately he died a 2 years back, but some time before he
got real sick, we stayed over at his place and he gave us the Banshee. He never sailed
it anymore but wanted to keep it in the family. So you understand I'll never sell it, and
I want to restore it in its old glory.

Some specifations:
color : white outside / red on top / white inside (originally red) Are all Banshee bi-colored?

state : pretty good, need to change all the wood, i think also the black "bumper".

originality: it lost a lot of it's originality. As stated it got painted in de tub, the dagger was
self made (broke it on the shore), the sail is from a pretty simular boat (lost it in very heavy wheather...).
name : no name. I'd like to restore the full red color and name it "Red Devil".
Especially because my uncle allways told me "We RedHeadeds got to stick together, sun".

BTW, the surrogate sail I have, can be reefed. I'm gonna use a halyard the way you described,
so I can use the reefs. But I must say, a Banshee just sails best with a bit too much wind.

I have an extra question: while sailing against the wind, the water roles gently over the
lower side of the boat. But at the rear end of the boat it hits the back wall, what makes
it go in the boat. This way my Banshee get full everytime. Have you heard about it? Is this
a bug or a feature? Thanks for your website and enthousiasm. Now I know I'll NEVER sell it.
Greatings from Utrecht, The Netherlands. Marijn van Heeswijk ps: sorry for my small knowledge
of english sailing words.

This IS the first I've heard from an overseas Banshee owner. But I bet there are one or two others there. I'm wondering-- are you close to Ommen? I spent five days there when I was in college. What a wonderful country you live in. Beautiful countryside and such nice people! I still have my souvineer wooden shoes displayed prominently in my home.

It is a small world indeed! MY Banshee was originally purchased in Lubbock, Texas around 1976! I bought it from a man in Athens, Georgia in 1990. The Banshee brochure with a "Bug and Bike Shop - Lubbock, Texas" stamp on it was included in my purchase. Maybe our boats sailed together once!? ;-)

Thanks for your nice comments. I'm glad you found the Banshee information useful. To respond to your questions/comments:

1.) As far as I know all Banshees were originally two colors. Red/white, Gold/white, or Blue/white.
2.) Black Bumper (we call this a rubrail). I need to relace mine too.
3.) Red Devil! I like the name - what would that be in Dutch? I think your uncle would be quite pleased.
4.) HINnumber - It should be on the left (or maybe right) rear side of the transom wall. If it is not there it may well have been covered by additional layers of fiberglass and red paint.
5.) Reefed mainsail! What kind od sail do you have? Does it have an insignia (symbol) on it? Others may be interested in possible replacement sails. I agree too that the Banshee is meant to fly! I wish my sail was BIGGER!
6.) Hmmmm- water rolls gently over the lower side of the boat. Marijn, either you've been eating too many "Pomme fritts" ;-) or your flotation system needs some attention. Sounds like a bug to me!

Seriously, it sounds like when heeling (boat tipping on side) Red Revil is riding TOO LOW in the water. I'd add as many "swimming pool noodles" (flexible closed-cell ethafoam flotation tubes or bars) to your boat as possible - also you are hiking (leaning) out on the windward side to keep the boat flat on the water, right? . These things are about 10cm in diameter and about 1.5 meters long. I was able to force 6 or 8 of them into my side flotation tanks via the inspection port. After looking at your photos-- Do you ever take her out of the water? I bet that she is holding some quanity of water. She appears to be sitting LOW in the water.

Take her out, raise the bow and drain her via the drain plugs. See how much water you have in there-- and inspect her for cracks in the hull (near the daggerboard well) and along the deck/hull joint. I discovered serious leaks in my boat when I tipped her onto her rail (side) [see attached picture leaktest.jpg] and fed a running water hose into her interior. If water leaks out she is going to be taking water in when she heels over too! I do not know too many Banshee sailors that leave their boats docked in the water when not in use. You may want to look into dry storage options. If she does leak I'd find a way to seal her. I poured quanities (1/4 gallon) of fiberglass resin into the side cells with her tipped as in the second picture [joint_repair.jpg] so that this liquid would fill the gaps and harden. I bet there is a better material to use-- but it did the job on Doozie.

thanks for your reply. I think your right about the floating system. I remembered it
higher in the water en thought it strange with that water rolling in. Thanks for those
remarks and suggestion. I'll let you know whether it worked or not.

Further more:
Ommen is in the East of The Netherlands, Utrecht/ Loosdrecht are in the center. It's about
150km apart; according to Dutch standards that's not close. According to American it's
around the corner... BTW: I don't own any wooden shoes! ;-)

I've got the same "Bug and Bike"-brochure! I'm gonna check the right date. Maybe they did
sail together. Then it is a small world afterall! Very weird.

Am I right to see that the inside of the boat should have the same color as the deck? I
want to redo it as orginal as possible.

"Red Devil" in Dutch would be "Rode Duivel". But it's gonna be in English of course. My
uncle wouldn't mind a bit... ;-)

I'll check the insignia. I think it's an "Olympia Jol". But it is no sail you want:
it's not cut right and it doesn't go around the mast. You need tot tie it to the mast.
That way you loose a lot of power. But at the time we had no alternative. Now I'got the
official measurements. Maybe I'll have me a new one...
BTW reefing is only fun if it means you're going to be the onlyone daring to be on the
water...

Hiking is the main fun on this boat. Headdipping and all. I think you're right about
lying too low. I'm gonna check it. thanks.

You're suggestions help me a lot. As I told you: lot to talking care of this winter.
Thanks again. I'll keep you posted and get you some more pictures of her sailing.

150km, eh? Yeah, you are correct. I drive 115 miles (over 200 km) to go sailing on weekends. I know several people that commute well over 70km daily. I don't. I drive 3 miles to work. I wish I could cycle in but the only route is along a busy two-lane highway and there are no bike lanes... sigh.

I think that all new Banshees musy have had a primarily white (speckled with gray & black textured paint) cockpit interior. See images of cockpit floor at: 23boom.jpg and 25boom.jpg

Sounds like you are in for some interesting re-fitting work this winter. I look forward to hearing about it and do send photos (something with a windmill in the background, perhaps?)!

To: Steve Bonham
From: Marijn -Priv
Subject: RE: Red Devil
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001

Steve,
I am a ProjectManager for IT Migration Projects so I work all around The Netherlands, and
drive an average of 70 miles per working day. I was born in the south near Eindhoven, went
to college "way" up north in Groningen, had my first Job in the west at The Hague and have
lived for a few years now in the center city of Utrecht. So in Holland I've been around.
But lots of other people, inlcuding my family, think 30 miles driving to work is a lot.

Anyway, your pictures tell me my cockpit wasn't originaly red and later on repainted
badly: it's supposed to be speckled and textured. It's not a bug, it's a feature! Sorry
for the artist that came up with that idea...

Pictures will come your way! I'll try to fit in some windmills, and maybe I'll even buy
some wooden shoes! Wouldn't want to disappoint you...

Wow. 10+ gallons! That's about 80 pounds of drag! I bet you are flying! That's great!

On the Banshee name- yeah, I knew it was something along those lines. I just know that sailing mine lifts my spirit! :-) I don't know why the Marine Plastics folks used a bird! Weird, huh? I guess drawing a spirit is a little more difficult.

From: "Steven M Kornblau, M.D."
Subject: #875 shakedown cruise
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001

Well we finally got Banshee #875 (soon to be named Jisa) into the water this past weekend. Saturday morning was a shakedown cruise until the wind gave out. I learned that one of the battens was the wrong size, that the screws to hold the tiller extension onto the tiller were too long (they scraped my nice new paint job leaving arcs in their path), that my lines are too long and where the shallow areas are in the water. Sunday morning, having bought a new batten and two shorter screws, we took her out for a series of trips with some friends of our that have sailing experience. We stayed within half a mile of our house where it is very protected from the tide, but where you can get a good wind. It was fun and I learned how to turn around.

This evening I got a bit braver and went out with my 7 y.o. He got a little anxious when we heeled over a bit too much and got some water in the cockpit (about 4 inches). The auto bailer does not seem to be working. If you figure out yours let me know. I puttered around for about an hour and came in. Lots of jibing, not as much coming about as I should have done. But it went well and I was able to get away from the dock and back to the dock both times I went out. The second return was at ramming speed however!

It's taking me about 25 minutes to rig. Your manual is a major help. It is quite nice to live on the water and to be able to just use a lift to drop it in or out of the water, no trailering required. I'm looking for a boat cover for it. Do you know anyone making a good one that fits? I'll send a picture of it out on the water soon.

Sounds like your "maiden voyage(s)" were a major successes and in challenging conditions too. I don't think I would have tried salt water the first time or two. Congratulations! Sounds like you learned a lot... that is where most good sailors pick it all up. Have you read any of Moitessier's stuff? I'm currently reading "Sailing to the Reefs"-- quite a character and quite a story. He's made several single-handed circumnavigations- and was ALWAYS "learning." After just a few chapters he been attacked by a shark while spear-fishing, and lost his first ship (that he built) on a reef.

I havn't been out in a while- 3 or 4 weeks now. Maybe I'll get a chance to try my bailer this next weekend. I'll let you know. If you are going to take a 7 yr old out you better make sure that you can both recover from a capsize. Banshees DO turn pretty easily especially in a gybe. I spent a lot of time in shallow water with my son when he was 7 doing intentional capsizes. Just sail on a beam reach and lean to leeward-- she'll turn onto her side easily. The few time or two it is scary but then it is a lot of fun. Are you sailing in a protected bay or in surf? DON'T do this in surf! LOL! Enjoyed you comments about ramming speed docking. Been there! Always try to beat into the wind on your last turn. Course with tides it is easier said than done. I have seen boat coveres for Banshees advertised in a sailing magazine. I'll find the contact info for you.

as promised--
>I have seen boat coveres for Banshees advertised in a
>sailing magazine. I'll find the contact info for you.
>More on that later.

From: "Steven M Kornblau, M.D."
Subject: Jisa sails on, but....
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001

Well I've been out about 10 times on the JISA & I'm learning a lot as I go. We had one bad episode where we were capsized by the wake of my across the street neighbors motorboat. I got a fairly good laceration on the top of the head from the boom clonking me. The jerk just motored off leaving us in the water.

Today I as out in a fairly brisk wind & doing well. I have a thinsuit for scuba diving and it made for warm sailing despite the 60s temp and breeze. You need to sail NE to get out onto clear lake and the wind was head on from the NE, so I did a lot of tacking. On the way back, & fortunately only a 1/2 mile from home, the gooseneck link to the boom broke. The cotter pin and the link stayed on the mast. The part that connects to the boom popped off.

I seem to recall someone with a Banshee showing pictures of a repaired link. I'd be grateful for any information on how to repair this, or where to get replacement parts for this.

Glad to hear you are still at it. I havn't been sailing in a while. Just back from a windsurfing trip to Cape Hatteras. Zoom!!! 4 of 7 days we had 20+ mph winds. Ripped my hands to pieces.

That was my boom! Sounds familiar! See my damaged/repaired boom. You are not using a boom vang are you?! The same thing happened to me (on a wild run downwind). The standard boom insert is rivetted into the boom. After mine popped out, I used self-tapping screws to replace the rivets and it has worked just fine.

HOWEVER, I also started using a decent boom vang at that time and THAT has made ***all*** the difference. My website has some info about the vang design (2 double blocks [one a fiddle with a V-cleat] and some 3/16" line) and it will only cost you about $30-40-- so don't delay.

See info at step 39 on this page: rig3.html Take those "incoming" powerboat waves at a 30 degree angle (bow centerline to wave line) and it will minimize problems. I once went at a right angle to a 200' SHIP's 3' wave and it fairly flogged me-- my rudder --which was bungeed in was whiplashed free. I had quite a bruise on my hip from hiking way out as I went airborne and returned smartly/suddenly to the post wave trough.

Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001
From: Crackles no
Subject: banshee rudder, cntr plate plans

i have just bought my 1st boat a banshee 77 but the last owner has lost the tiller , rudder and center-plate. can you help me out with some plans or patterns so i can make these three items

Thanks for the jpgs of your Banshee. She looks to be in remarkably good condition for her age. Still has a Banshee sticker on the transom! First time I've seen that.

I'll check the measurements if the tiller and extension and get them back to you. I don't know that a rudder without the metal sides will work-- the metal housing connects directly to the transom wall gudegons (metal bands on the aft wall). You may want to explore purchasing a new rudder assembly from Abbott Boats in Canada.

On your question about the broken plastic "rubrail"-- Man, I wish I had an answer. My rubrail is fractured all over too. I have double and triple glassed the top of the transom to prevent water penetration but you must be diligent in this area. The mast step (interior mast base area) is a frequent repair site on the Banshee. Keep your mast step pin in place and keep the mast column free of cracks by reglassing the column via the inspection port.

For your info I attached a brochure for the Banshee for 1978. I bought my boat in 1978 and still have it. I live by Murray KY (west end of KY).

If you would like to get together this summer and do some sailing with our boats let me know. Maybe we can find a lake about half way between us to meet. Maybe we could start a yearly gathering for Banshee's for the East Coast.

Thanks for the Banshee brochure info. It is an update of the 1976 brochure I have. I'll add this version to the website too. Interesting that you are in Murray. My wife and I made a trip up to Kentucky Lake over the Thanksgiving holiday. We were looking for a lot to build a retirement/summer home on. Loved the area... but no luck as yet on a place we can afford. How lucky you are to be so close!

Great thinking on the Banshee East Coast idea. That would be a lot of fun. You are pretty centrally located- and there are wonderful camping facilities in ther LBL- we could do this! What's you summer schedule like? Steve

Thanks for all the great info last spring.? Really been enjoying the boat.? I was wondering if you ever replaced the rubber bumper around the boat?? I'd still like to do that.? I was also wondering if you know where to fin d a new or used sail??

I did some checking around Kentucky Lake and found a spot that would be good for the Banshee's. Its a day use area with a launch ramp for 2, a dock, playground for kids, 2 pavilions and it looks like the boats can be pulled up on the shore and not far from the Moors Resort which has a restaurant.

Its on a large cove for sailing if the main lake gets to rough to sail. I put together a web page with links containing info on the area and maps. The web page is at www.wpr.pair.com/banshee if you want to check it out. If you have any other ideas let me know along with what weekend would be good for you.

I just read your article on how to rig a Banshee, and I am extremely grateful that you took the time to put together this wonderful set of detailed instructions. I am a novice sailor, (grew up on the water, but spent most of my time on power boats, canoes, and kayaks) but was clueless on how to rig this boat.

Last year I built a composite wooden sea kayak from Chesapeake Lite Craft plans and had a great time doing it. Since then I have also built a small 12 foot canoe/kayak for my kids. Well boat building is contageous. I have been looking for a project boat and came across an ad for a project sail boat - make unknown, only 15 miles from my house. Well I brought it home today for the whopping price of ten dollars. After searching the internet for serial number databases I finally discovered that I was the proud owner of a Banshee!

Well the next search took me to your page and sure enough my boat is a Banshee. She needs a new transom as the wood has rotted between the fg plies. There are a few small stress lines in the hull which I think (hope) that a new layer of 6oz fiberglass cloth with cure. I am following your links to the advice on this project, but would love to hear about your experience. All the wood on the boat needs to be replaced. I have the tiller, mast, & boom (which, as you have encountered, needs to be re-attached to its end cap / mast connector) but no sail. I also noticed from your instructions that I will need a mast well gasket (donut) and now I also know where to get one.

I will be working on this project during the winter. I will be taking before and after pictures along the way. Thanks for the great site. The links are more than I could have hoped for. This morning I was strapping an unknown boat to the roof of my van envisioning the gueswork required to restore her, and tonight I have a Banshee and detailed guidelines for her restoration!

Congratulations Banshee owner! Thanks for the nice report. I'm glad to hear that you found my Banshee website useful.

WoW! $10 for a Banshee! Now that is a d(st)eal! ;-) Sounds like you've got some work ahead however. But with your experiences I know you will enjoy it. Where are you located? and where will you be sailing?

You are probably correct to suspect the hull stress lines you've discovered. Are they around the daggerboard well-- or forward of this area (under the mast well)? The Banshee is pretty sturdy boat but a layer or two or glass can't hurt.

If "all your wood" needs replacing you'd better check your air cell flotation and mast step area too. A dozen "swimming pool noodles" placed into the side air cells will keep it afloat if the old stuff has disintegrated. Use a hand held mirror to check it via the inspection port. Old Banshees often have cracked mast-step columns. It's tough to work in this area but it can be done as long as you have a lot of patience. It is important to have strength in this area- as you can imagine a break here could put you seriously out of business.

I've had my "bird" about 12 years now. 26 yr. old "Doozie" is showing her age but still makes me smile on days when we're given a steady breeze. I've got some suggestions on my website re: transom repairs-- look in the FAQ area - and search for "transom" -- The rotten plywood is a common occurance that can be fixed. Two summers ago I cut mine off and built a new one from scratch- It was not an easy task, and several seasoned Banshee owners have told me what I did was quite radical-- so do see what others have advised.

Looking forward to seeing your before, while, and after photos and the progress reports.

Date: 2/4/02

To: captrob@juno.com
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Banshee Rendezvous

Rob,

The [Banshee Rendezvous] page looks good.

Let's do this! Pick a weekend that is good for you and I'll save the dates on my calendar and promote it on my website. I've no sailing regatta experience but I've helped with organizing a "Joker's Run" 5k run-walk-- a Bar-B-que combined with something like that might be fun.

Put your thinking cap on and let's pull together a schedule.

Steve

............................................................................

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 23:13:53 -0600
Subject: Re: Banshee Rendezvous
From: captrob@juno.com

Steve,

How does July 13 and 14 sound. I also have no experience with running a regatta. I have been to a few jet ski fest where they had a Bar-B-Que. I will check out some Bar-B-Que places for pricing and minimum number of persons that is required for them to cater the event. One activity might be a poker run with the boats going to 5 marinas on the cove then winning a prize for the best poker hand. The last one I was on the boaters did not pick up the cards at the marinas but picked 5 cards from a deck after finishing the run (we had all day to go to the marinas). We could charge $5 or $10 for the poker run and the prize could be what ever money was collected for entering the event. A trip across the lake to the "Rock Quarry" could also be done as a group. What do you think? Do you have any other ideas for activities.

Rob

............................................................................

Date: 2/4/02
To: captrob@juno.com
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Banshee Rendezvous

Rob,

I've got these dates marked. Would we make this a 2 day event then?

Banshee Rendezvous!

How about something like this?

Friday, June 12 Arrivals

Saturday, June 13 Poker run from Marina A to B to C to D to E Bar-BQ dinner

Sunday, June 14 Kids mini Regatta? in age classes?

(I have 3 Banshee mini sailors [13, 11, 9]) Sailing lessons?

Can you mark the map to indicate the proposed launching area, the Moors, and the Marinas?

Let me search the web for ideas for Poker Run and other sailing events. Sounds like this could be a lot of fun.

Steve

............................................................................

Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:49:22 -0600
Subject: Re: Banshee Rendezvous
From: captrob@juno.com

Steve,

The date was in July, I noticed that you wrote June. In June the 13 and 14 is Wed and Thurs.

The kids mini regatta sounds good (age classes can be worked out depending how many kids attend.).

I don't know about sailing lessons since the people there will have sailboats and I would think they know how to sail them, unless there is someone to give a clinic on some type of sailing (racing, sail trim etc.) Since I don't race I do not know much about racing. If one of your kids needs a boat for the regatta they can use mine. The poker runs I have been on give you the day to go the the 5 spots (in any order that you want to go). I had a card punched to show that I went to the locations. When I had the 5 card punched at the different locations I turned it in and drew from the card deck for my hand. Since some of the marinas are hard to sail into without a motor we could trust the sailors that they sailed to the locations not needing to go into the marinas. This way we would not need to get people at the locations to punch the card. The card we had was laminated for the event so it was waterproof. The 5 punches were different shapes, one for each marina. I thought a two day event would be good since they can drive after work on Friday. Attend the event on Saturday and Sunday. Then have time to drive home Sunday evening. That would give them the choice to sail Saturday and Sunday or just Saturday. I figure Sunday would be a shorter day so people could drive back home. I can stay as long as anyone wants to be there on Sunday. I added a area map link under directions with a map of the resorts/marinas, hotels, and campgrounds. I also added a link with the Rock Quarry info on it for a possible sail trip. I'm still working on the dinner part. I used Banshee Rendezvous instead of Regatta to get away from the idea that it is a race instead of a good time sailing. Any other ideas on a name. Any other ideas let me know

Rob

............................................................................

Date: 2/5/02
To: captrob@juno.com
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Banshee Rendezvous

Yep!

Sorry. I marked the July dates- just misspoke in the msg.

Good point on the lessons. All sounds good- I too like the Rendezvous naming sounds "friendlier" ditto on the Poker Run. I'll try to tweak my page in the next few days and possibly e-mail all the Banshee owners I know about this event.

............................................................................

To: sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:51:58 -0600
Subject: Re: Banshee Rendezvous
From: captrob@juno.com

Steve,

I found a place that will provide a Bar.B.Q for $6.00 . This includes BBQ, buns, sauce,baked beans, potato salad, cole slaw,drinks (soft drinks),and utensils. They will deliver the items in aluminum pans (disposable) to the launch area. It is then self serve or we serve it, they will serve it but it cost more (extra $1.00 per person but at least 25 people are needed). The price is for 25 to 50 people however he did say that he will do it for 15-20 people if he just deliver the food. I did some driving around and there are launch ramps by Big Bear Resort, Macolm Creek Dock, King Creek Resort,Barge Island Rec. Area, and the Rendezvous put in. All the launch ramps are easy to sail to. For a Poker Run we could put a punch by each of the launch ramps and have the sailors punch a card to show that they were there during the day. Punches could be by a sign saying Banshee check point. I have a lot of old life vests that could be used for the kids regatta course.

If you have e-mails for owners that would be good. As we add or change things I can add it to the web page. If you come up with anything else let me know.

Rob

............................................................................

From: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
To: sbonham@gasou.edu
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:20:50 -0500
Subject: Banshee #7042

Hello, Steve,

I came across your website while researching the Banshee in consideration of purchasing one.

I recently acquired Banshee #7042 from a fellow named Kevin Coates, who bought it new from a dealer in Wisconsin in 1983. The boat is in remarkable condition, almost new. Most of the wear is in the edge of the daggerboard, which has a few nicks. The boat came with the rainbow sail, in good condition, and a small dolly that hooks onto the rudder gudgeons. I paid $1100 for her.

Kevin sailed the boat on Lake George in Upstate New York for many years. He had the boat in indoor storage for the last five years because he no longer used it. That explains why she is in such fantastic shape.

I live in Long Island, NY, about 60 miles east of Manhattan, in a place called Coram. Long Island is a great place to own a sailboat like the Banshee, with the LI Sound to the north and the Great South Bay on the south shore.

I wanted to get your opinion on installing automatic suction bailers in the Banshee. Since the cockpit is not self-bailing, it seems like it might be worth it. Everything I have read on the Banshee indicates that boat will take on moderate amounts of water when the breeze picks up. Do you use automatic bailers, and if you do, which ones? What size? Do they work well?

-Jacob Pinsky

............................................................................

Date: 2/7/02
To: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Banshee #7042

Hi Jacob,

Congrats on your new Banshee. What a nice find! Sounds like a great place to sail too.

On the bailer question-- I installed bailers on my Banshee near the end of this past summer. I chose to install one 4" (super mini; about $65) bailer. APS (Annapolis Performance Sailing) sells these in 3, 4 and 5 inch models. I've only had it in the water a few times since-- and I'm sorry to say that I could not tell if the bailers were doing anything... I only had an inch or so of water in the boat. Mike Salmon (another Banshee open water racer of Florida) swears by them.

I too was concerned about how much water the Banshee can ship in a single wave. I've taken a cockpit full (about 5 inches = 80-100 gallons!) in squalls on occasion. I can assure you this is no fun to clear this amt of water with a scoop bailer.

You can find the Anderson bailers at: http://www.apsltd.com/depts/dept278.asp

best of luck,

Steve

............................................................................

To: sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 11:21:20 -0600
Subject: Banshee Rendezvous
From: captrob@juno.com

Steve,

For pricing I was thinking of $7.00 per person that includes the meal and $15.00 for the meal and poker run.

That was only those in the poker run pay for that event. That will allow money to buy a trophy for the poker run (I will check on trophies). The remaining money could be used for any extra expenses that come up with what ever is left added to the prize for the poker run. I added a registration page to the web site. If you have any other ideas on pricing or anything else let me know, I can always change the web page.

Rob

............................................................................

From: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
To: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 21:45:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Banshee #7042

Hi Steve,

Do you have an e-mail address for Mike Salmon? I'd like to ask him some questions about the bailers. Somebody on ebay actually has an Elvstrom bailer, 3" x 51/4" on auction. The Elvstrom bailer looks like an Andersen. However, the size specified in the auction does not match any of the Andersen sizes on the APS. Anyway, the starting bid is only $6.99, and they want $6.50 to ship.

You mentioned you installed one bailer. Where did you position it? What was involved with the installation?

............................................................................

Date: 2/10/02
To: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Banshee #7042

Sounds like a good deal.

Mikes e-mail is: "Mike Salmon" <salmon@fau.edu>

............................................................................

Date: 2/11/02
To: [List Suppressed]
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Banshee Sailboat Rendezvous - July 2002

Hi Banshee sailors,

Rob Sorg <captrob@juno.com> of Murray, Kentucky has a great idea! He's organizing two days of Banshee sailing and socializing with other Bird Boat owners and families on wonderful Kentucky Lake (1.5 - 2 miles wide and 40+ miles long) that is centrally located to those of us east of the Rockies. The plan is still evolving (We'd love to hear your ideas) but the focus is on sailing fun and face-to-face Banshee talk.

The dates: July 13 & 14, 2002

Events: A Poker Run "race"

Youth Regattas

Bar-B-Q dinner

Rob is putting together a website for the event- There are maps, info on accomodations, etc. at: http://www.wpr.pair.com/banshee/

I've recently visited Kentucky Lake-- it is awesome-- absolutely huge. A great place for such an event.

Hope you can join in,

Steve

............................................................................

Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:24:27 -0800 (PST)
From: james moodie <ducer52@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Banshee Sailboat Rendezvous - July 2002
To: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>

Hi Steve-

The weekend sounds great. Thanks for the message. Many folks out here on the left coast will probably be at the High Sierra Regatta at Huntington Lake, California, Including what we hope will be a strong showing of Banshees.

Jim Moodie, Folsom Lake Yacht Club.

............................................................................

Date: 2/12/02
To: James Moodie
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Banshee Sailboat Rendezvous - July 2002 Cc:

Jim,

Sounds like a good time. How far are is Folsom Lake from Bishop, California? My wife Susan is from there (Inyo County) and we go to visit her Mom every couple of years. I'd sure enjoy visiting Folsom Lake and meeting Fleet 1.

All the best,

Steve

............................................................................

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:44:10 -0800 (PST)
From: james moodie <ducer52@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Banshee Sailboat Rendezvous - July 2002
To: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>

Dear Steve,

Folsom Lake is located near the town of Folsom (Folsom Prison and all that) which is about 20 minutes east of Sacramento. In the summer time the "Banshee boys" try to get out on Wednesday nights (about 5:30 or so) for informal racing and socializing. We would be delighted to meet you and share some water time. Let me know when you might be down this way.

Jim

............................................................................

From: "Ken Eyerman" <keyerman@cox.rr.com>
To: "Steve Bonham" <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: RE: My new Banshee
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:43:18 -0500

Hi Steve,

Sorry for the long delay, I had the cable people out to my house twice before I got my internet service back up!

I have the entire transom off now, and can easily check the floatation, believe it or not, it is still all in tact and even glued to the underside of the deck still!, My mast step column is fine withone exception, the pin that rests near the bottom has pulled through one side. I will need to re-glass that area and re-install the pin.

I appreciate your help. Here is a link to my make shift AOL free page with my banshee pics and the other kayaks I have built. Take care, I'll be in touch.

http://hometown.aol.com/customarinecraft/myhomepage/kensbansheeboat.html [great photos here of Ken doing transom replacement surgery.]

PS I plan on sailing this in the Southern part of the Chesapeake Bay as well as Bethany Bay in Delaware where my in-laws have a beach house. I live in Fairfax County in VA, there are a few small lakes in the area where I am sure I will do all my testing!

- Ken

............................................................................

To: <keyerman@cox.rr.com>
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: RE: My new Banshee
Date: 2/26/2002

Hi Ken,

Cool- or I think that is now spelled "kwel!" Thanks for the update. Man-- those photos bring back some memories of sticky (resin sticky!) hot summer days! What kind of saw did you use to remove the transom? It/you certainly did a nice job!

When you reinstall the pin-- Don't make the mistake I did. I put a full threaded bolt in there and the mast rocking (fore and aft) action while sailing fairly chewed a good 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep groove into the mast base. I understand that the original Banshee "step pin" had a metal sleeve covering the threads. If you have the sleeve use it-- If you don't have the sleeve buy a new bolt with threads on the last 1/2" only.

[Mast step pin assembly from top, from side]

Keep me posted on your progress-

All the best,

Steve

............................................................................

To: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
From: Steve Thompson <stevedt@attbi.com>
Subject: Help with finding a Banshee mast
Date: 3/26/2002

Hi,

My name is Steve Thompson. I have inherited a Banshee from my father, minus
a mast. I have the rest of the boat intact. Do you have any suggestions on
where I might have the best luck of finding a mast to purchase or where I
might get specifications to have one manufactured? Thanks for any
suggestions you may have.

Sincerely,
Steve Thompson
Seattle, WA
............................................................................

To: Steve Thompson <stevedt@attbi.com>
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Help with finding a Banshee mast
Date: 3/26/2002

Hi Steve,

I'll have to measure the mast pieces -- I'll get that info to you tomorrow. I've heard that a Laser has a similar mast- A fellow Banshee owner wrote a couple of years ago that his son turned turtle and the mast and boom went to the bottom of the lake. Lost the rudder too! He bought a Laser mast and boom and it seemed to match up.

I'll look for his e-mail address too. He might have more info by now.

[spar info]

Steve

............................................................................

From: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
To: sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:40:46 -0400
Subject: Banshee mainsheet length

Hi Steve,

Hope all is well with you and yours.

I did a dry rigging run on my Banshee today, in preparation for taking her out, I hope, this coming Sunday for the first time.

I noticed after I rigged the boat and hoisted the main that, if I let the boom out as far as it could go, imitating a run, there was insufficient mainsheet to have the boom go perpendicular to the boat. I measured my mainsheet, and it is 25'. I then read in your rigging guide that your mainsheet is 25' long too. Hasn't this caused you a problem? With my boom out all the way the mainsheet stop know was jammed up against the swivel cleat. I think a 35' mainsheet would be better, especially if you are sitting farther aft and need to hold the sheet.

Also, do you know offhand the diameter of your Cunningham and vang control lines?

-Jacob Pinsky

............................................................................

Date: 5/2/02
To: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Banshee mainsheet length

Hi Jacob,

Sounds like a good weekend ahead!

My mainsheet is 25'- In a run the boom is pretty much perpendicular to the centerline. You could try a line a bit longer but I would be very careful. It seems to me that going beyond the 90 degree angle might put undue pressure on the mast-boom hardware. If the boom is resting against the mast a good blow might have so much leverage the foremost end-plug will part from the boom. Be careful!

My C-ham is 1/4 inch (overdone!) and my vang is 3/16" Spectra. Here that runs about .70/foot. 10' should be plenty for the vang.

Good Breezes!

Steve

............................................................................

From: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
To: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 20:08:30 -0400
Subject: Maiden Banshee Voyage

Hi Steve,

Took the Banshee out today and learned first hand what the deathroll is on a run.

The wind was blowing onshore about 10 to 12, with higher gusts. I debated whether to take her out, but decided to try it.

The boat is a maniac, very powerful and very touchy. Much different from my old Snark. I nearly capsized twice, and the second time it happened I was scrambling up the windward side getting ready to jump onto the centerboard. I need to develop the feel for the balance of the boat, and learn when to ease the mainsheet! Needless to say, I shipped a ton of water. Luckily, I was pretty close to shore so I used the daggerboard to kind of anchor the boat in the mud and spent about 5 minutes bailing out. Could have sure used those self-bailers!

Anyway, I think I am in for a fun summer, once I know what I am doing.

-Jacob Pinsky

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Date: 5/2/02
To: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Maiden Banshee Voyage

Yowza!

Sounds like you had a handful. Yeah-- a run in a Banshee can be very pecarious especially if the wind is swirling and gusty. I've been there more than a few times. Now I do my best to avoid a direct run and gybe acoss to broad reaches instead. If you practice making S's going downwind you'll get the hang of it.

You should go ahead and capsize her too. Righting your Banshee is delightful- a challenge but FUN too. If you are not sure how to right your boat see my daughter do it .

Hang in there!

Steve

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From: "penni gruber" <gruber@intergate.com>
To: <sbonham@gasou.edu>
Subject: Thank you
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:28:18 -0700

Thanks for the very informative page on rigging your Banshee. I just found am old Banshee hull and am starting to rebuild it.

Jay Earlywine
phoenix, az.
gruber@intergate.com

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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:26:30 -0700
From: "Boroughf, Matthew S" <matthew.s.boroughf@lmco.com>
Subject: Banshee repairs &
To: "'sbonham@gasou.edu'"

Steve,

I visit your site often to get ideas on how to rig my Banshee. For the first day out for the season, I tried using the halyard instead of struggling with installing the mast with the sail fully raised. It was a very windy day, so it helped with launching, and also when I came in after the sail and I could drop the sail. Great method especially if there is no one around to help. Unfortunately toward the end of the sail on a really gusty day, the tiller started feeling heavy, and the shock cord I use to keep it down wasn't enough to hold it there anymore and it kept rising half way. I brought it in and raised the rudder to find that it had split down the center and I now have something resembling a "V" rudder (fiberglass rudder if you're wondering). Total failure of the bond between the two rudder halves all the way up to the aluminum structure. Great way to start the season isn't it?

My transom is in need of repair also, but it was still working after some temporary fixes. Since I'm out of commission now with the rudder problem, I might as well get to work on that too. Hopefully I can get it together before the summer is over!

Have you seen any pictures of the transom repairs that other people have done? What do you think about using just epoxy to re-bond the rudder (original method?) as opposed to getting some matte into the picture?

After these repairs are completed, I'm thinking of re-painting the entire boat. Any paint suggestions?

One last question. My bumper strip around the boat is cracked, broken, missing, etc. Any ideas on a replacement product?

Also, I'm in Foster City CA where the boat was originally built, so if some of the people that were involved in this are around, I'd love to talk to them if possible.

Thanks for the help and the great web site!

Matt

P.S. I plan on documenting my repairs with some digital pictures and would be happy to send them to you when they are complete.

............................................................................

Date: 5/14/02
To: "Boroughf, Matthew S" <matthew.s.boroughf@lmco.com>
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Banshee repairs &
X-Attachments: :Steve's Mac:16:rot.jpg:

Hey Matt,

Man! when it rains... as they say.

Glad you liked the rigging stuff. Sorry to hear about the rudder and transom woes. Wow, I have not heard of this happening to a glass rudder. I've had a few adventures with my wooden one tho! Yeah. I'd go for the easy fix first. Roughen up the mating edges of the pieces and bondo (or epoxy) those things. Sand smooth. Wax it to a smooth finish! That *ought* to hold it for a good while.

I have never seen photos of other repaired transoms... or the process. I wish I had documented mine. How bad is yours? Is it dry or wet rot? and how extensive? You can pinch the area between fingertips and pretty much determine the extent if it is wet. It will feel like firm sponge between the hard glass layers. I'd estimate that my transom was about 20% wet-rotted when I discovered it [see rot.jpg image for location]. Pretty bad! I had stored it over the winter upside down with the transom sitting on sawhorses. The nose was on a sqaure of plywood on the ground. A dumb move as it turns out. The water seemed to have entered via a drain hole crack.

Paint? I used some white ValSpar on the hull. Same stuff they use to paint Corvette bodies after a repair. Sand it with 400 - 600 emerycloth until it is excellent. I only did mine until it was pretty good-- and it's too late to go back. Then prime it first- battleship grey. It was expensive ($50 for a gallon) for the white ValSpar but has it has held up well. The stuff is HARD. See your auto parts guy for advice.

Bumper (rubrail)? I need a new one too. Havn't been able to find a replacement that can be riveted like the original. Check with Annapolis Perfomance Sailing. The rail is 5/8" inch if I remember right. I suspect that it will need to be riveted back on to maintain deck/hull bond.

On California Banshee sailing community- check out the Fleet 1 gang (Folsom Lake, California) they have always been helpful to me. They (and an e-mail link) are at: http://www.geocities.com/banshee_fleet_one/ Try Skip Stanyan if you can find him.

Breezes, (and yes do send pictures and notes of the fix-ups. Others will appreciate it.)

Steve

............................................................................

From: "Franklin Propst" <prop809@bellsouth.net>
To: <sbonham@gasou.edu>
Subject: RE: Rubrail
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 12:25:16 -0500

Hi,

I note that you have at least one note about a source for the rubrail on a Banshee. If you were successful in finding a source, would you share it with me?

Thanks,

Frank Propst

............................................................................

Date: 5/28/02
To: "Franklin Propst" <prop809@bellsouth.net>
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: RE: Rubrail

Hi Frank,

Sad to say- not really...

There are places that sell rubrails (West Marine and APS) links to both on my Banshee webpage that might fit but getting them on is another matter.

Let me know if you find a solution.

Good luck,

Steve

............................................................................

From: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
To: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 08:50:20 -0400
Subject: Capsize/Rudder Loss

Hi Steve,

Well, I finally capsized my Banshee yesterday, out in wind conditions that I probably should not have taken on, and lost my rudder because I neglected to lash it to the boat as I usually do (I did have the daggerboard bungeed in, which saved it). I also discovered that that my boat leaks. Although she initially stayed vertical in the water, she eventually starting listing over and nearly turned turtle. I was unable to right the boat because of the weight of the water in it and had to get assistance.

So, now I have two problems. One is to locate the leaks into the flotation compartments, the other is to get a new rudder.

Any ideas on the latter? Unfortunately, I lost it in 30-50ft of water, so there is little chance of recovering it. I will probably have to have a new one made up. Any ideas as to who I could turn to for a new one? Thanks.

-Jacob Pinsky

............................................................................

From: "Jacob Pinsky" <jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com>
To: "Steve Bonham" <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Capsize/Rudder Loss
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:45:32 -0400

Hi Steve,

I have written to Abbot about the rudder, just to get a price estimate. I am also going to see if I can talk to local divers about trying to do a recovery. It might also be possible to drag the bottom in the area I went down to see if I can recover it. However, I am not exactly sure where I actually went over, so it could be some job to try and recover it.

I am wondering if the water got in either, as you say, via the top of the mast, or perhaps through the mast step as I went through the gymnastics of trying to right the boat. When I was driving the boat home, every time I put the brakes on, water poured out around the white square section in the foredeck that houses the mast step. I am going to investigate all the possibilities.

My question is, how do you get up on the daggerboard? As I was floating in the water, I was reviewing everything I read on your site about recovering from a capsize. Try as I might, I could not get up onto the daggerboard from the bottom side. At that point, I tried to do it from the cockpit side. Perhaps my weight, about 195lbs, is what pulled the mast step down to the level of the water and filled the compartment, because that is when the boat started to list over.

-Jacob

............................................................................

Date: 6/4/02
To: "Jacob Pinsky" <jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com>
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Capsize/Rudder Loss

Jacob,

See an animated gif of the righting process (via daggerboard) at <http://www2.gasou.edu/cet/Banshee/Misc/right.gif>

At 195 you will most likely be able to right the boat from the water- without attempting to climb onto the daggerboard. You may well sink her by doing that. Just do a chin up on the end of the daggerbrd and hold on for 20 seconds or so-- that should bring it over. I can often right the boat this way if conditions are calm- and I only weight 135.

Another idea-- if the boat is still difficult to right from in the water. You can create a "cheatsheet." It worked great for my son. When he was not quite 75 pounds he could right the boat using this set-up. It was a 1/4" line with a 6" handle (brookstick piece). The total length of the line was approx. 12'. It was tied in a loop around the daggerboard well. When he would capsize he'd just release the mainsheet, and toss the "cheatsheet" over the toprail of the boat towards the daggerboard. Swim around and climb on the daggerbrd, back up to the tip and lean way back and wait.

See these two files:

Misc/cheatsheet.jpg
Misc/capsize_cheat2.mov (This file is a movie that requires Quicktime player - Download Quicktime)

to see the "cheatsheet" in use.

You will NOT be able to right the boat from the cockpit side. No way! You are correct about that. Trying to climb in there will only force the mast deeper into the water- and risk turtling. That is probably how your Banshee took on so much water so quickly.

Sounds like you might want to investigate three areas:

1. the mast step-pin area of your mast well. You may have openings there that have allowed water to gain entry rapidly. The bottom of my mast well has the step pin and maybe slight openings at each end of the pin- but nothing that would allow water to dramatically enter the hull.

2. the mastwell-deck joint. Where the white square meets the yellow (mine is yellow) deck. Inside the hull these pieces are reinforced with some thin sheets of marine plywood. It is possible that these have dry rotted or that the bonds between these pieces have deteoriated.

3. the deck/hull joint (along the rub-rail)- This is where my boat was taking on water.

[here is a way to test the hull/deck area for leaks]

Hope this helps-- best of luck,

Steve

............................................................................

From: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
To: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:42:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Capsize/Rudder Loss

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the info, again. I actually have been thinking of a "cheatsheet" just as you described for climbing up. Your capsize recover animation is very useful. Of course, considering the wind condtions on the day I capsized, without a rudder, even if I had righted her, I am not sure I could have gotten her to shore. I have never practiced trying to steer a sailboat just using balance alone.

By the way, I lost my two lower battens on Memorial day - they just slipped out of the pockets unoticed while sailing. I ordered two new ones from Annapolis Performance which came today. Now I discovered that during the capsize I lost the remaining two battens, so I have to order the upper two. I am going to have my wife sew velcro strips on the ends of the batten pockets to keep them closed. Those little flaps that are supposed to secure the battens just do not cut it.

I am going to have to call Abbott, as they have not responded to two e- mails in as many days. Sure hope they can build me a new rudder!

-Jacob Pinsky

............................................................................

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 00:47:24 -0700
From: Bud Kremer <bkremer@neteze.com>
To: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Banshee Sailboat Rendezvous - July 2002

Steve -

I just wanted to thank you for the heads up on the big Banshee outing.

It's a bit far for me, but I appreciate your efforts anyway. Rob's website put me in touch with the Folsom YC website, which I have perused. I Hope to get a little closer to it soon.

Principally because of your help, I got a lot of use out of my Banshee last summer, up in Washington State, where I have a friend who lives on Wildcat Lake. I will be back up that way again this year and hope to repeat, if not to exceed, that experience. Who knows, I may even stay upright this year?

Thanks again,

Bud Kremer

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From: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
To: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:22:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Capsize/Rudder Loss

Hi Steve,

I picked up a slightly used Laser rudder today, which is somewhat smaller than the original Banshee rudder. I will have to move the gudgeons to properly attach the rudder and have enough room for the tiller handle to properly clear the transom. The whole deal, with tiller, extension, and jam cleat came to about $300. I also bought an eyestrap to attach to the tiller arm so I have a convenient place to lash the tiller to.

I was wondering if you could tell me how much rudder you actually have in the the water, the length of your tiller and the length of your tiller extension. I purchased a wooded tiller. but I am afraid it's too long, and I think the extension might be too long also. Thanks very much if you can help me out.

-Jacob Pinsky

............................................................................

To: sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:21:32 -0500
Subject: Banshee Rendezvous update
From: captrob@juno.com

Steve,

Just to update you on the Banshee Rendezvous, July 13 and 14. We have one guy and his 10 year old son with a banshee and a friend of his ( with a Chrysler 14 ft. boat), also with a 10 year old son coming. They both will be camping. The plan so far is to have registration starting at 9 am on Saturday and the Poker Run during the day. The BBQ will be at 4:30 pm afterwards the poker hands will be determined and a plaque along with the winnings will be given out. Sunday we can have a race for the kids which we can discuss on Saturday (time course etc.). After the race trophys for 1st and 2nd place will be given out. Looking forward to seeing you.

Rob Sorg

............................................................................

To: sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu, KentLowry@yahoo.com,
Vince.Bobrosky@verizon.net
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:51:27 -0500
Subject: Banshee for sale

From: captrob@juno.com

I received this e-mail if anyone knows someone interested.

Rob Sorg

-I am up in Illinois and have a nice little Banshee
-available for the rendezvous if anybody needs one.
-It's in good condition. Been garage kept. It has a
-trailer and cover. What is a fair price?
-
-Please drop me a note if you know of anyone interested.
-
-Thanks. JK
-email: jkaye@rr1.net Ph. # 217-849-2933

............................................................................

To: sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:46:11 -0500
Subject: Banshee Rendezvous
From: captrob@juno.com

Steve,

In case you have not found a place to stay the others will be camping at Big Bear. They also have rooms. In case you are interested. http://www.bigbearkentuckylake.com/

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From: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
To: steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 23:05:03 -0400
Subject: Rudder plans

Hi Steve,

Is there anyway I could get a set of rudder plans for your wood Banshee rudder, rudder head, and tiller? At least this way I would have a rudder sized for the boat. I would compensate you for your time and effort. Thanks.

-Jacob Pinsky

............................................................................

Date: 6/20/2002
To: sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu,KentLowry@yahoo.com, vince.bobrosky@verizon.net
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 18:05:36 -0500
Subject: Banshee Rendezvous

From: captrob@juno.com

Just to let you know I added a link to http://www.wpr.pair.com that takes you some pictures that were taken at the 2002 Banshee Rendezvous

Rob

............................................................................

Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 20:06:31 -0700
To: sbonham@gasou.edu
From: "Thomas G. Hippert, P.C." <tomaship@earthlink.net>
Subject: Thanks for the rigging ideas

So Mr. Steve,

I have two Banshees and they are also about 30 years old. My father and I have sailed them, and had many adventures with them, he is now dead, and I am now the captain, so to speak. My father was, for a few years, the local dealer for the Banshee. He purchased several boats directly from Mr. Reid, who made them in the San Francisco area. As an aside there is still a healthy club in the Folsum lake region. I have spoken with them and received their race results. It seems like Sacremento, Cal., is now the center for the Banshee.

Your photos and ideas are great. However, we sail in the Gulf of California or the Sea of Cortez, about 3 hours from Tucson, and our main problem is getting the boat to the water. The wind is regular, (at times strong). and the upper reaches of the Gulf are warm and fun to sail on. The most difficult problem is the high tides, at times 30 feet or more. However, one of the reasons the Banshee is great is its lightness and ease of launching. I love the boat and am keeping two old Banshees alive and sailing. This is not a small task.

Keep up the good work and the good "stuff" on the net.

Thank so much for your enthusiasm about the "old" boat, sailing and rigging it well.

Oh, for your information, my father and I have designed a beach trailer to launch the boat. This is a light trailer which goes into the main trailer, and is light enough to pull to the beach, or have pulled by a ATV. It make it much easier to launch the Banshee. It is light enough to drag over the sand. However, we find it much easier to have a light trailer to roll it to the water line. There is no need to try to drive my Jeep deep into the soft sand and it is much easier to get the Banshee near to the Ocean, or the tide line.

Yes, it is a lovely boat and I have had many hours of great fun sailing up and down the coast of Northern Mexico. We have a house in Mexico, and the name of the port or town is Rocky Point or Puerto Penasco, Sonora, Mexico. The Banshee is a great day sailor and a fun boat to sail in a light to medium wind.

Thanks,

Tomas

Thomas G Hippert
110 S. Church St. #4290
Tucson, Arizona 85701
[ph-520-6220-926]

............................................................................

Subject: Sail For Sale
To: "sbonham@gasou.edu" <sbonham@gasou.edu>
From: Tom_Peloquin@averydennison.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:17:28 -0400

Hi Steve

I'm selling my Banshee sail. I purchased a laer sail for my boat. The Banshee sail is in good condition.

The reason I'm selling it is I lost it in Long Island sound (long story). After I lost it I boufgt the Laser sail. I was pretty lucky I went back and found it. The Banshee sail was in the water for 2 weeks. I've cleaned it

and am asking $175.00 for it. If you Know of anyone interested please let them Know. Sail # 2072

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Date: 6/27/02
To: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Rudder plans

Hey Jacob,

Sorry about the delay. Got'em!

Go to:

Misc/rudder_assem01.jpg
Misc/rudder_assem02.jpg

Hope this helps. If anything seems unclear let me know.

Steve

............................................................................

From: "Jacob Pinsky" <jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com>
To: "Steve Bonham" <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Rudder plans
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:37:59 -0400

Hi Steve,

Thanks very much! You are terrific, and this is very helpful to me.

If you could put up with a few more questions...

What is the spacing/position of the gudgeons on your transom? I wonder if they match a boat like mine that had a fiberglass rudder. If the tiller is straight and level, how high above the top of the transom is the bottom of the tiller?

Is there any way to get a profile of the rudder, i.e. the cross sectional shape, at the bottom, midpoint and top? If I am going to make a new one, I need to know how to taper it. If only you could make a mold...I wonder if there is much of a market besides me for replacement Banshee rudders? :-)

Also, exactly what is the construction of the rudder blade? Is it a single piece of hardwood, marine plywood, etc.?

Somebody contacted me from my post on trailersailor.com and told me to contact Sharron Hart of Hart Sails in California. It turns out that she sails with a person, Charlie Hess, who owns the Banshee molds. I am still waiting to hear from her or Mr. Hess

-Jacob

............................................................................

From: "Jim Mitchell" <jimmitchell@columbus.rr.com>
To: <sbonham@gasou.edu>
Subject: Rigging a Penguin
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 13:04:05 -0500

Do you have, or know where to get the rigging diagram for a Penguin. My friend just bought an old one, with no fittings on it.

Jim Mitchell

............................................................................

From: Steve Bonham [mailto:sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 3:40 PM
To: Jim Mitchell
Subject: Re: Rigging a Penguin

Hi Jim,

No-- nothing specific on an Penguin-- I'm sorry to say. But most dinghies are similar in some ways. Keep looking at a variety of designs (Banshee, Laser, Lightning, etc.) and I'm sure you'll figure it out... or maybe find someone who can better assist.

You might want to check out the book _Sailing for Dummies_ (one of my favorite sailing resources I must admit) by JJ Isler, ISBN 0-76450-5039-X. It does a really good job or contrasting basic designs and rigging/sailing basics.

Good luck!

Steve

............................................................................

Date: 6/27/02
To: "Jacob Pinsky" <jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com>
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Rudder plans

Hi Jacob,

My comments are embedded below.

>What is the spacing/position of the gudgeons on your transom?

That I'll have to check... look for an answer tomorrow.

I wonder if

>they match a boat like mine that had a fiberglass rudder. If the tiller is straight and level, how high above the top of the transom is the bottom of the tiller?

I'm estimating: 1/2 inch (I'll look at this too) See images at:

http://www2.gasou.edu/cet/Banshee/rig3.html

>Is there any way to get a profile of the rudder, i.e. the cross sectional shape, at the bottom, midpoint and top? If I am going to make a new one, I need to know how to taper it. If only you could make a mold...I wonder if there is much of a market besides me for replacement Banshee rudders? :-)

market? not likely... but who knows

See the profile of my daggerboard (rudder profile is very similar): Misc/dag_x-sect.jpg and Misc/dag_info.jpg. The blunt (leading edge) is gently contoured-- the trailing edge is more pronounced but overall the thing is basically "flat." Banshee control surfaces are definitely NOT state-of-the-art hydrofoils .

top: rectangular 1" x 8"
mid: contoured- trailing edge about 2.5-3"
bottom: contoured- slightly less than midpoint; 2"

>Also, exactly what is the construction of the rudder blade? Is it a single piece of hardwood, marine plywood, etc.?

All THREE!!! wooden pieces of my rudder assembly are from solid wood planks. I'm guessing that they are mahogany. NOTE that there are 3 wood pieces (not including the tiller extension)!
Look at: Misc/rudder_assem01.jpg

I've color coded the pieces and added a "cross section." The rudders "blade" is actually two pieces mated within the aluminum rudderhead so that the bottom piece can "kick-up" if it strikes the bottom.

Misc/rudder_assem02.jpg

THAT, I wager, will be the toughest part of building your rudder.

Steve

............................................................................

Date: 6/27/02
To: "Jim Mitchell" <jimmitchell@columbus.rr.com>
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Rigging a Penguin

Hi Jim,

No-- nothing specific on an Penguin-- I'm sorry to say. But most dinghies are similar in some ways. Keep looking at a variety of designs (Banshee, laser, lightning, etc.) and I'm sure you'll figure it out... or maybe find someone who can better assist.

Good luck!

Steve

............................................................................

From: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
To: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 21:31:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Rudder plans

Hi Steve,

Thanks again for all the help. The construction does look like quite a project. The revised diagram is very good. I think there is enough information there to build a workable rudder.

While I am building that, I figured out a way to fit the Laser rudder onto the transom without changing any of the existing hardware. Basically, I am going to mount a wooden bracket for the Laser rudder onto the existing gudgeons, and put the Laser gudgeons on the bracket. The Laser rudder is quite a bit smaller than the Banshee, so it will be interesting to see what it does to control performance.

I will keep you update on my progress. Thanks again for everything.

............................................................................

Date: 6/28/02
To: jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Rudder plans

Morning Jacob,

Check out the following 3 new photos which may help.

Misc/rudder_assemb_photo.jpg
Misc/rudderhead01.jpg
Misc/x_sect_rudder.jpg

Also a few measurements of interest (see updated Misc/rudder_assem01.jpg for measurements in illustrations):

distance from top of rudderhead (aluminum) to top of pintel strap: 3/4" distance from top of upper pintel strap to top of lower pintel strap: 6&1/8" distance from top of rudderhead to pivot point in lower rudderpiece: 5" distance from leading edge of rudderhead to pivot point in lower rudderpiece: 5"

Have a good one,

............................................................................

From: "Jacob Pinsky" <jpinsky@realnetsolutions.com>
To: "Steve Bonham" <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Rudder plans
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 12:54:32 -0400

Steve,

You have gone above and beyond the call of Banshee duty! Very appreciative of your help and information.

When I get the Laser rudder mounted, I will let you know and send some pics of how I did it. It's supposed to be nice this weekend, so I am hoping to get some time to work on it between other activities.

My biggest concern with the Laser rudder is it not having enough control surface in the water to effectively steer the boat. So, other idea is to make a rudder close in size to the Banshee rudder and retrofit it into the Laser rudder head., avoiding the need to create a new rudder head.

Anyway, it all depends on how the Laser rudder works out for the boat.

Take care.

-Jacob

............................................................................

Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 21:48:03 -0700
From: Gary Stebbins <stebbins@ihwy.com>
To: sbonham@gasou.edu
Subject: Reefing a Banshee

Hi Steve,

Wow..We got an old Banshee and it is all kinds of fun and my daughter and her boyfriend are learning. Your page is OUTSTANDING...thanks so much.

I am wondering if you have ever heard of a way to reef the main....to help them practice and for high winds?

Just a wondering.

Thanks

Gary Stebbins

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Date: 7/15/02
To: gstebbins@moreland.k12.ca.us
From: Steve Bonham <sbonham@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>
Subject: Re: Reefing a Banshee

Hi Gary,

Thanks for your comments. I asked this same question myself about 5 years ago. In a word the answer is no. The main is not designed to be reefed. However at least one person has wrapped the main sheet about the mast to reduce sail. The problem with this is that the mainsail CANNOT be lowered then- and it would be tough to do "furl" the mainsail like this in high winds anyway. Beginners should sheet out and not cleat the mainsheet.

I'd suggest that they find a protected cove and on a day when the winds (light-moderate) are blowing INTO the cove practic